I like American show bloodlines. Crosses anyone? - Page 7

Workingdogz I completely agree with everything you have said, I love the No Schutzhund, AKC/UKC is everywhere. There are other working titles and regardless of the line the dog should be able to work and should be x-rayed period.

I am so happy this topic is on here. After owning many too high drive uncontrollable and spastic GWL's and then the far other side the GSL's that are seriously labs in a pretty roached Shepherd's body, I see there can be an in between.
That is what I seek out. We seem to forget.... Pedigree shows what the dog is supposed to be, confirmation shows what the dog looks to be but performance shows what he truly is.
Stephanie

I am really learning  a lot from this thread. It changes all the stuff I have been told about ASL GSD’s
I knew nothing about pedigrees and had never been on forums when I got my boy in June 2009.

I went to a breeder whose that had titles in herding. schutzhund, obedience, agility, companion, therapy dogs. She is a breeder that often combines Show Line with Working Line, trying to produce a moderate all around dog. She has been breeding for over 20 years. I saw both Benny's sire and Dam, They were approachable and not extreme in appearance.
I socialized Benny to every thing imaginable,  bringing him to work where he is around lots of kids and teens, to Assisted living to visit my mother

Despite all this Benny is a bit reactive and I am wondering if it is genetic?  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=610245
For example; Benny was asleep on the floor in the bedroom and my 24 year old son came in, didn’t see him and started to step on him. In a flash Benny growled , lunged, nipped and pinned my son against the bathroom sink. He then realized who it was and what he was doing and stopped. If my son was a small child and not a strong man serious harm could have been done.

Today I took Benny to visit my mom in the Assisted Living. Benny was laying calmly when a very frail elderly woman came to him very slowly intending to bend down and pet him. I knew from Benny’s look that she had aroused suspicion in him and he was going to react. I stopped him, just as he barked and moved toward her (which I know was too late). I took him to the car and will not be taking him there again.

Benny he cannot tell a threat from a non threat, acts first and thinks later and I don’t know if our continued training will change this
I love him and will focus on the things we can do such a off leash hikes, swimming and agility. Benny did very well on two herding tests, but that is not practical   for us. ( sheep shortage)
I am planning to get another pup and really want one that will not have this reactivity.
I am not sure whether to look for a WL ( don’t want a prey monster), or SL, don’t want a reactive dog. I understand that crosses  between SL and WL can be great or gruesome, ;are only good when the breeder really understand what each dog brings to the cross. A cross that would result in reactive, prey monster would be  the ultimate disaster, I want a GSD that can do it all ( but does not have to do it all perfectly) and has great health. Where do I go for the best odds.
My  first GSD at  age 14  was  my dream dog and  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=403415

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=610245

Sorry I could not get rid of the underlines on my post!

MY American line stud. He does not walk like a frog; in fact he has a pretty straight back. He is courageous; does not back down from anything. Never had a health issue. People refer to him as a beast. I am more than proud of him.

Nice looking dog von ward.  Do you have a picture of all of him standing?

There is a big difference between American show line dogs and BYB/pet "lines".  When I see a pedigree that has no titles and "pet names" for the first 3-4 generations, I have a hard time even thinking of that dog as a breeding animal.  I am not going to comment on my opinions about breeding German and American lines together as it doesnt matter. 

But I am kind of shocked at how many people here are breeding "pets" who are untitled, from untitled parents, from untitled pedigrees who have "nothing" quite aways back.  Kind of sad to me.  Regardless of lines. 

"But I am kind of shocked at how many people here are breeding "pets" who are untitled, from untitled parents, from untitled pedigrees who have "nothing" quite aways back.  Kind of sad to me.  Regardless of lines."

Sadly, thats common in ALL lines. It would be nice to see a CD even..something?!  It's a start and shows that at least some degree of biddability/trainability is present in the dog.

But, it's easier to just breed then advertise "import lines"  or "son/daughter/greatgreatgreat grandson/granddaughter" of some titled dog. Why put in any work and actully try to see what makes the dog tick when you can rely on the sweat equity of others

I  think it depends.  A lack of titles does not always mean poor dogs.  My pup does not have a lot of titles up close.  Her breeder was an early imported of DDR dogs to our region. She has been in the breed for decades.  She was very active titling her dogs in the past and culled ruthlessly until she devloped a line of dogs acceptable to her.  She is much, much older now and can't train or title anymore.  But, the puppies she produces DO go on to get lots of titles with their owners. So, sometimes it's an age thing with breeders not a quality thing.  Also, a breeder who provides a list of references of their puppy owners year after year, decade after decade, must be doing something right! They are breeding some dogs that end up as pets with families and possess longevity and excellent temperaments. Other puppies they produce are shown to titles. I think that is ok too....so not all breeders who lack up close titles are backyard breeders with no knowledge of quality. Look to see what their breeding is producing...are the puppies placed going on to acquire titles?

Sara

Sara, I am not necessarily talking about breeders like you say you got your dog from.  Dont know who that is and will not comment on that. 

I am talking about when you look at a pedigree and you see Black Beauty bred to Mr Foo Foo, with the resulting offspring bred to Sir Lance A lot and a whole pedigree full of names like this with no rhyme or reason to it, no "kennel names", no known dogs, no titles, no OFA's, no PURPOSE whatsoever other than to produce puppies.  Then these "breeders" claim that the dogs are "working lines".... or whatever else they claim.  Basically they are BYB "lines" with no purpose whatsoever.  That is sad to me. 

I personally believe dogs should have a working title before breeding, personal preference of mine.  However, I can respect a breeder who has good dogs/lines and does have a purpose and does health testing and doesnt lie or mislead about that their dogs are or are not.