Chocolate GSDs....sigh - Page 7

Dont know about alopecia in GSDs, but blue chihuahuas do have a gene that manifests
itself.

Edited cos just remembered:
Did have one self-blue, long coated, yellow-eyed dog in my care last year who had some
coat thinning problems, notably around his head area but texture was poor all over his body
too.  We and the vet couldn't improve on it (don't know if its any better since  I stopped work)
and had written it off, not specifically to alopecia, but poor genetics.  Given that I had worked
out who this (rescue) dog was bred by, I should not be at all surprised, on reflection !
(No one mentioned in the cases we are discussing, but another pet breeder using the
same lines, another 'member' of one of these 'covens').   The more cases we think about,
the more it all ties in.

@ Linda

Yes, the numbers are fantastic. The more people that read this the more people are gaining awareness, the best part is that people are obviously linking the two threads and are able to see the real life tragedy behind these breedings, not just one side of the story, but cause and effect.

abby  apparently von Stephanitz didn't like white, I  have heard various reasons why not,
but they basically seem to boil down to this =   (and not to Nazis /eugenicists etc !):
he was looking at a sheep dog first & foremost, and one who he saw being adaptable
enough to do Army work as well (police came later).  Sheep HERDING DOGS as opposed
to sheep GUARDING dogs (Kuvasc, Marema etc) need to be seen quickly while moving
around the flock; hence a contrasting colour is better for them.  Dogs that went to the Army
were better sable (and then black & gold), because white showed up too easily doing night
patrols.
As matters progressed, Max and the SV realised that most whites had poor pigment anyway
(champagne markings, liver noses etc) so they rejected them, and the other 'dilute' colours
liver & blue likewise.
Thats basically it, but all sorts of extra interpretations about political philosophies, personal
preferences, the actual meaning of 'culling' from a breeding programme, have got added
down the years.  Chinese whispers can carry fast over a century !
Some find this hard to believe, but I myself have nothing against fancy-coloured dogs where
they crop up at a natural rate, other than I don't think I would breed with them.  In fact when
I was only 9 years old it was a white GSD who turned me on to my abiding interest in the breed.

@vonissk, ya never know, maybe if we can move the KC on it,  AKC will take some notice !  
'Most' (almost all ?) of the farmed colours in the US and elsewhere can be traced back at least
partly to the same wide grouping of british dogs if you investigate far enough, I believe.

@ Hundmutter....your take on the white GS and the historical perspective is the same way I understand it. You feelings about them cropping up naturally and the breeding of them is also my perspective. 

Thanks Gustav

I agree with both of you. Some years ago I had a litter there were 4 blue sables in it. I didn't know they were blue and thought they were gray. I sort of got to figuring it out and got to calling people. Well one lady was from Riverside CA. and had a 2 page ad in Dog World. When I talked to her she got really excited and wanted to buy a couple of them--they had a nice pedigree--mostly working lines--but I refused because I wasn't sure about them and a lot of other things but I knew they were against the standard and I thought they should be fixed. So I did rehome them and everything was ducky--figured out where it came from and decided never to use anything with canto in the lines.

Yes Abby I was trying to spell alopecia--thank you now I know. And Hundmutter regardless of what I did with that Dobe his hair never was right either in the places he had it. I remember reading that now about von Stephanitz and the white dogs. (regarding sheep herding) I too have heard other things like about the Nazis and all that. I too have had white dogs way back when. As a kid there was a house up by the neighborhood store where there was a pair of them. I remember them being good sized and they ran the fence and barked ferociously. And who can forget Jack laLane and his white dogs? So I'm not against them so much as I just don't want any in my lines and I just don't want any dilutes or whites period. I like dark dogs--like blacks and black sables..................

Hmm sort of funny, I just thought about something after I read your post. That dog she got was a solid black coat but it was born in the Netherlands so it might be kin to some of those British dogs.

Abby that's funny what you said about the KC and the AKC--------yep they're about the dollar bill............maybe changes will come about some day. I see some things changing in the show ring and they are better things for the breed.

"Dutch dogs and English dogs go out in the midday sun" ... tra-la !
Would not be at all surprised, Vonissk.  Lotsa German import dogs
in Holland, but also lotsa dogs bred in the UK imported to Holland,
over the decades ...

My 'old woman' !! brain is struggling to bring a name to mind, but wasn't a white english dog from Blinkbonny lines a major founding white dog in the US?   When I said 'except the whites' I meant that the whites aren't dilute, so don't have CDA so far as I am aware.  I believe dilute GSDs can have it, but I think the frequency in Dobes is higher.

Yes, that's pretty much what I understand the history of the whites to be, though back then they didn't have a full understanding of genetics either, and I think believed the white to be a weak colour, though a white is usually a sable in disguise.  I know of a couple of very nice white dogs and have nothing against them when they crop up naturally either. There was at one time an explosion of popularity in whites about a decade or more ago, and I did see a deterioration in temperament in a lot of them at that time.  That doesn't seem to be the case so much now, though we did have one at our club a couple of years back who no matter what, at 4 months would not come out from under a chair, everyone, including the owners worked so hard with him, but he did end up biting an instructor.  It saddens me when I want to see all GSDs whatever their colour be good ambassadors for our breed, and not giving people cause to think of them as dangerous dogs. That is a slippery slope which will affect us all. 

Chocolate GSDs are Ok but tend to melt in the summer  keep smiling

An update from the BVA 25 October 2012
http://www.bva.co.uk/news/3049.aspx

Better regulation of dog breeding needed in England, vets tell committee
BSAVA President Mark Johnston said:

“The veterinary profession is doing a lot to highlight dog welfare issues but our frustration is that by the time someone comes in to the veterinary surgery with a new puppy it’s too late to tell the client that they may not have made the best choice.

“Education has an important role to play but this must also be backed up with strong legislation and a Dog Advisory Council that has teeth and resources.

“Many dog owners are working under the impression that Kennel Club registration is a mark of quality but this isn’t the case. KC registration doesn’t necessarily mean that health tests and socialisation have taken place and  we believe that the KC should not be registering unhealthy puppies.

“The puppy buying public needs more help to understand how to select a happy, healthy puppy from a good breeder.”

Linda - this might help with your letter to the KC?