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by Sue B on 06 April 2010 - 11:04
Dingodog, a German Shepherd is a German Shepherd, unfortunately thanks to those who breed Alsatians, there are two types, both are actually German Shepherds (of different quality) but the Alsatianists themselves, due to their insistance on calling the breed Alsatian instead of its universal name of German Shepherd have themselves caused the creation of two types UK Type Alsatian and Universal type German Shepherd.
NOW, unless another name is going to be found to further segregate this breed from itself, there is no such breed as Middle of the Road. They are German Shepherds or perhaps some think or prefer themselves to be Alsatians I dont know, either way middle of the road breed dont exist. Why is it so difficult for people to grasp this simple reality, this simple truth?
Regards
Sue b
NOW, unless another name is going to be found to further segregate this breed from itself, there is no such breed as Middle of the Road. They are German Shepherds or perhaps some think or prefer themselves to be Alsatians I dont know, either way middle of the road breed dont exist. Why is it so difficult for people to grasp this simple reality, this simple truth?
Regards
Sue b
by Dingodog on 06 April 2010 - 17:04
SueB
I didn't say they were a breed, I said they were a type. As the international showline is a type and the alsatian is a type. They are as you say all one GSD but not all necessarily the correct GSD.
Carole
Two reasons - I love Dingo vom Haus Gero, that's one reason, and I also used to have a lovely mongrel bitch who looked exactly like an Aussie Dingo, and I used to affectionately call her my Dingo Dog. So, a bit of both :) (well spotted)
I didn't say they were a breed, I said they were a type. As the international showline is a type and the alsatian is a type. They are as you say all one GSD but not all necessarily the correct GSD.
Carole
Two reasons - I love Dingo vom Haus Gero, that's one reason, and I also used to have a lovely mongrel bitch who looked exactly like an Aussie Dingo, and I used to affectionately call her my Dingo Dog. So, a bit of both :) (well spotted)
by bazza on 06 April 2010 - 18:04
Dingodog, You are correct that the Alsatian is "A " type, but sorry the International showline is " THE " type, big difference!!! " A" type is a variation of "THE" type.
by Dingodog on 06 April 2010 - 18:04
Bazza
THE correct type IMO is more leaning towards MOR, not international showline, not whilst they are overangulated and have an arched spine.
THE correct type IMO is more leaning towards MOR, not international showline, not whilst they are overangulated and have an arched spine.
by Dingodog on 06 April 2010 - 18:04
Bazza
Sorry, that wasn't very clear. There some international show line dogs that I think represent the breed as I believe it should be (along with others) well, but I think of these as middle of the road. Simply not exaggerated. However, they do not predominate. The dogs that Germany are producing and which others countries emulate (what I think of as the current international showline) are overangulated and do not have a correct back.
Carole
What is Chiki's full name, would love to have a look at her.
Sorry, that wasn't very clear. There some international show line dogs that I think represent the breed as I believe it should be (along with others) well, but I think of these as middle of the road. Simply not exaggerated. However, they do not predominate. The dogs that Germany are producing and which others countries emulate (what I think of as the current international showline) are overangulated and do not have a correct back.
Carole
What is Chiki's full name, would love to have a look at her.
by bazza on 06 April 2010 - 18:04
It seems to me you have not looked at what Germany is producing for some time, maybe a fresh look would be helpful. I believe what you describe as overangulated with an arched spine is a myth and not as common as you seem to believe, but hey ho you are entitled to your opinion no matter how blinkered it may be.
by Sue B on 06 April 2010 - 18:04
Exactly Bazza, well put. Once again.
Dingodog, the WUSV Breed Standard describes breed type. It describes ONLY One Type, it does not describe a VARIATION of TYPES. Therefore ANY variation to the type it describes is incorrect and not typical of the breed.
When the KC writes Rules, it expects you to be guided by its rules, it does not accept any variation to its rule, so therefore how can it accept a variation to the International standard of a Breed type? I could keep making such examples adinfinitum but I know you are intellegent enough not to need them.
For anyone who still doesnt understand here it is again for one last time. There is a breed called The German Shepherd Dog. It is an International Breed, in fact it is THE most recognised and overall popular breed in the world. It has an International Standard set down by its Motherland and held by the WUSV (World Union of Shepherd Clubs), Through bigottry the UK adopted the name Alsatian and some continue to create a specimen of the breed which fails to conform to the International GSD Type. For all intense and purpose they created a completely different type which although it shares the same genome ancestry it is quite visibly and characteristically different. This is a historic fact but at no time was the breed ever known as The German Shepherd (Middle of the road) Dog, or even the GSD Middle of the road (Alsatian) Dog,
In which case only one conclusion can be reached, they are all German Shepherds, some incorrectly created under the premise of being solely an Alsatian of which the rest can only be German Shepherds.
Regards
Sue b
Dingodog, the WUSV Breed Standard describes breed type. It describes ONLY One Type, it does not describe a VARIATION of TYPES. Therefore ANY variation to the type it describes is incorrect and not typical of the breed.
When the KC writes Rules, it expects you to be guided by its rules, it does not accept any variation to its rule, so therefore how can it accept a variation to the International standard of a Breed type? I could keep making such examples adinfinitum but I know you are intellegent enough not to need them.
For anyone who still doesnt understand here it is again for one last time. There is a breed called The German Shepherd Dog. It is an International Breed, in fact it is THE most recognised and overall popular breed in the world. It has an International Standard set down by its Motherland and held by the WUSV (World Union of Shepherd Clubs), Through bigottry the UK adopted the name Alsatian and some continue to create a specimen of the breed which fails to conform to the International GSD Type. For all intense and purpose they created a completely different type which although it shares the same genome ancestry it is quite visibly and characteristically different. This is a historic fact but at no time was the breed ever known as The German Shepherd (Middle of the road) Dog, or even the GSD Middle of the road (Alsatian) Dog,
In which case only one conclusion can be reached, they are all German Shepherds, some incorrectly created under the premise of being solely an Alsatian of which the rest can only be German Shepherds.
Regards
Sue b
by Dingodog on 06 April 2010 - 18:04
Bazza
Would looking at the most recent Sieger winners qualify? Being blinkered can certainly apply both ways.
I was looking at a very well known dog, standing at rest. He looked so uncomfortable in his skin, and his spine was not straight, and yes, his legs were overangulated. I hope to see some good dogs coming out of Germany, without these faults, which perhaps the rest of the world will emulate. Hopefully, Herr Meyers warning has been heard. Bazza - perhaps you could offer up some dogs for me to review my knowledge. On the other hand, as a result of another thread I looked at a dog that for me really reflects the standard Ch Fayrelander Polly Flinders, I am sure they won't mind me mentioning her, as it is in a positive light. I would really love to see more like her. If that is what is happening I for one will be truly happy.
SueB
Yes, I know the history. I agree, they are all GSDs. My statement however still stands, that whilst overangulation and abnormalities of the spine appear in the modern International Showline, as far as I can see they don't fit the standard, so to me cannot be correct. I also really don't like the tacit acceptance of unsoundness.
Would looking at the most recent Sieger winners qualify? Being blinkered can certainly apply both ways.
I was looking at a very well known dog, standing at rest. He looked so uncomfortable in his skin, and his spine was not straight, and yes, his legs were overangulated. I hope to see some good dogs coming out of Germany, without these faults, which perhaps the rest of the world will emulate. Hopefully, Herr Meyers warning has been heard. Bazza - perhaps you could offer up some dogs for me to review my knowledge. On the other hand, as a result of another thread I looked at a dog that for me really reflects the standard Ch Fayrelander Polly Flinders, I am sure they won't mind me mentioning her, as it is in a positive light. I would really love to see more like her. If that is what is happening I for one will be truly happy.
SueB
Yes, I know the history. I agree, they are all GSDs. My statement however still stands, that whilst overangulation and abnormalities of the spine appear in the modern International Showline, as far as I can see they don't fit the standard, so to me cannot be correct. I also really don't like the tacit acceptance of unsoundness.
by Doppelganger on 06 April 2010 - 19:04
You are forgetting the other 'type' - the one Mr Payne constantly refers to as the 'correct International GSD' which is the phrase he uses to differentiate certain dogs from the unexaggerated German Shepherd Dog which is the correct type seen all round the world. Just waiting for the clubs to change their names to the 'Correct International GSD Club of Wherever'.
by noddi on 06 April 2010 - 19:04
dingodog.i,m afraid there is no picture of chiki on pedigree database.the only picture that i,ve personally put in publication myself was the one taken when she was 18 months old at southern counties champ.show.her kc reg.name is RHEINMEISTER CHI-KI-MI.(DOB.02.12.2002)This picture is in the breed council book for 2005,if yu know someone who has this publication.they,re are a couple of pictures in the breed council magazines(dont know the issues,but i think prob.march 2007 crufts issue)dont like this photo.of her .the other was after 3 counties champ.show(jun 2009)yu would have to come to a show to see her as i dont know how to post a photo on here or facebook.i live in maidstone kent if thats any good as there are shows a lockmarket.sorry.Carole.
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