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by djc on 12 July 2012 - 16:07
I have both wl and sl, European of course! I have been through several wl pups and dogs that are definitely NOT true to what their genetics said they would be. I have been sooo disappointed that some of them have less nerve and less confidence than my sl pups. Yet they come from top DDR and known top other wl dogs. My other wl"s are getting older and I keep trying to replace them with no luck. They are wonderful! I have kept some sl/wl crosses from them but now need new 100% wls. The wls that I bring in HAVE to have naturally strong drives and confidence or I don't want them. They don't fit my purpose! So, my point is, genetics does not compile as huge of a percentage as most here seem to think. The difference is not in how they are raised and socialized as all of mine are done the same whether they are sl or wl. Just MY own personal experience in the past few years. That being said.... can someone please direct me to that ultimate wl puppy that HAS it all and needs no socialization and still has a correct non socially aggressive temperament AND correct conformation?!! PM or email me please. Preferably email. Please no typical wl bs!! No litter is ALL 100% the same. Both wl +sl have just a few really good ones in each litter... and maybe that's been my problem? People are giving me ones w/o top potential bc I have sl too? Who knows! I get so sick and tired of all the wl/sl bias BS!
BTW I will not discuss on this board what lines I've had because I will not embarrass the breeder or the bloodline. If you feel you have to know, then PM me with the understanding that YOU will not disclose this info either. If you do not promise me that, I will not give the info. That's how much I respect other people and dogs.
Debby
by minro on 12 July 2012 - 16:07
I have two GSD's. One from a backyard breeder, no papers, don't know the parents temperaments, no hip/elbow xrays, probably no working titles (I didn't know what I was doing at the time... obviously). I socialized the SHIT out of that dog. Literally brought him with me everywhere - and I live in downtown Chicago, there is plenty of crazy shit to see and people to meet. Surely enough, as he matured, the spook in him came out. Strangers and new people? No thank you. He's scared of essentially everyone and will put on a great big show of it. It had nothing to do with his upbringing... he just isn't a genetically sound dog.
My second dog is from a well known breeder and I know more about his bloodline than I know about my own family history! Hips, elbows, working titles all in order. I socialized him but not anywhere near the amount I did my first dog. I can bring him anywhere, meet anyone, do anything and it doesn't faze him. First time he met a little toddler, he was in LOVE. I bring him to street festivals right in the city, through huge crowds on Michigan Ave, near Water Tower, etc etc. He is so, so great. But I don't take credit for that. It's just how he is.
I agree that a dog with so-so temperament can be helped or hurt with it's owners own confidence, or lack thereof. MINIMALLY, and not irreparably. But it does NOT make or break a dog.
by darylehret on 12 July 2012 - 17:07
by beetree on 12 July 2012 - 17:07
I sort of fell asleep through the rest, you can be real boring sometimes!
JK!Daryl!
by darylehret on 12 July 2012 - 17:07
by maywood on 12 July 2012 - 20:07
Well "Minro' I know your not going to want to hear this but if you raised that puppy from day one then it is ultimately your fault the dog was a spook. I surely can't sit here and tell you why as only you can know the answer. Perhaps you learned alot from that dog and you grew to be a better owner when raising the next dog. But blaming it all on genetics is not the answer in almost all situations. Rarely if ever is it the dogs genetics that is the main problem.
Also, I had to be exposed to many dogs over the years to even know this so I too made my fair share of mistakes in raising animals and can think of many that I still feel bad about.
I never expected everyone to believe me here. In fact, I expected this.
by minro on 12 July 2012 - 20:07
Anyways, what if I had the confident dog first, and the spook second? THEN what would you say? Because ps, they are my 4th and 5th dogs. The first 3 I owned were amazingly social and well behaved as well. I don't attribute any of it to my skills as a dog handler/owner.
by maywood on 12 July 2012 - 20:07
by Keith Grossman on 12 July 2012 - 20:07
So what your essentially saying is that for dogs at this end of the spectrum, it's genetic but for dogs at the other end of the spectrum it isn't; correct?
by Red Sable on 12 July 2012 - 20:07
Debby, I bought one DDR dog and it was a spook.
As for the SL/WL argument, the best dog I ever had was a SL, half American at that, so yes, there are poor examples in all lines, I think we all agree on that, however, some pedigrees obviously have better nerve than others.
minroe
I had the confident dog first, and I couldn't screw him up. There is no way one can blame it alll on the handler, if one wants to carry the guilt for poor breeding, go for it.
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