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by AKVeronica60 on 08 August 2011 - 00:08
News Update of WHAT HAPPENED TO Athos vom haus Sevens and Vinetta von Karthago. Are they alive? WHERE ARE THEY NOW? I am Veronica Worthington, the owner of record, and I hold both registration papers.
As of Sunday afternoon, August 7, 2011, Vinetta is back home with me in Alaska. She had an extensive veterinarian examination, and was found to be heavily infested with hookworms, for which she was wormed before leaving Tulsa, OK. Other than the hookworms, she is not in bad shape, just has a lack of muscle tone. Scott Bakkala took her to the vet for examinations and treatment for me, and brought her to the airport to ship her off. Thank you so much, Scott, for all of your help.
Athos is alive and happy, and has the fertility and motility of a 3-4 year old dog according to a June 29 test with a vet in Tulsa, OK. He lives with and is owned by Cindy Thorne, and he has always been owned by her.
Vickie asked for recompensation for a dog she never owned!
God Bless you and thank you so much for your help Scott Bakkala, Richard, Annalisa, and Bruce. Thanks to Jan (Yellowrose), the Bloodthirsty Fact Finding Bitches (you know who you are!), VomMarischal, Sueincc, and everyone else who helped me out. There are a lot of wonderful, helpful people out there who love dogs.
Now this is a real soap opera folks. Go pop some freaking popcorn and sit for a spell. I'll tell you an interesting tale and it's possibly all true as far as I personally know. I'll tell Athos' story first, because that's the one you are most familiar with.
In June, Scott Bakkala saw Cindy Thorne at the Schutzhund training field, where she was throwing the ball for Athos. And while talking, Cindy told Scott a very sad story. She told him a story of Athos, Vinetta, Vickie, Cindy, and Cindy's other belongings such as dogs, truck, dog trailer, etc in Vickie Knighton Lanig's possession. Vickie would not allow Cindy to have her belongings or her dogs back.
This also started a long conversation about Athos, his supposed condition, about me and my refusal to allow anyone to have the papers on either dog, etc.
Scott decided to champion for Cindy. And this required approaching that lady in Alaska—me.
I think when Scott first approached me, he was not sure whether or not I was a bad guy. But we each listened to what the other had to say.
As of Sunday afternoon, August 7, 2011, Vinetta is back home with me in Alaska. She had an extensive veterinarian examination, and was found to be heavily infested with hookworms, for which she was wormed before leaving Tulsa, OK. Other than the hookworms, she is not in bad shape, just has a lack of muscle tone. Scott Bakkala took her to the vet for examinations and treatment for me, and brought her to the airport to ship her off. Thank you so much, Scott, for all of your help.
Athos is alive and happy, and has the fertility and motility of a 3-4 year old dog according to a June 29 test with a vet in Tulsa, OK. He lives with and is owned by Cindy Thorne, and he has always been owned by her.
Vickie asked for recompensation for a dog she never owned!
God Bless you and thank you so much for your help Scott Bakkala, Richard, Annalisa, and Bruce. Thanks to Jan (Yellowrose), the Bloodthirsty Fact Finding Bitches (you know who you are!), VomMarischal, Sueincc, and everyone else who helped me out. There are a lot of wonderful, helpful people out there who love dogs.
Now this is a real soap opera folks. Go pop some freaking popcorn and sit for a spell. I'll tell you an interesting tale and it's possibly all true as far as I personally know. I'll tell Athos' story first, because that's the one you are most familiar with.
In June, Scott Bakkala saw Cindy Thorne at the Schutzhund training field, where she was throwing the ball for Athos. And while talking, Cindy told Scott a very sad story. She told him a story of Athos, Vinetta, Vickie, Cindy, and Cindy's other belongings such as dogs, truck, dog trailer, etc in Vickie Knighton Lanig's possession. Vickie would not allow Cindy to have her belongings or her dogs back.
This also started a long conversation about Athos, his supposed condition, about me and my refusal to allow anyone to have the papers on either dog, etc.
Scott decided to champion for Cindy. And this required approaching that lady in Alaska—me.
I think when Scott first approached me, he was not sure whether or not I was a bad guy. But we each listened to what the other had to say.
by AKVeronica60 on 08 August 2011 - 00:08
It appeared that Cindy did not know what her partner Vickie had done or promised in regards to Athos or Vinetta. She said she was shocked to find she had an account on the PDB. That she doesn't have a computer. Vickie has all the passwords and email accounts to "Cindy's" website, Taos Spirit Kennels, and her email. Vickie is listed as administrator, for instance, on the municipal business license for Taos Spirit Kennels (this I personally know is true, you can look it up in the city business license directory). Cindy cannot do anything with TSK website, as she does not have the passwords. (Which makes the recent posting of the "horrible TSK website" a moronic irony, LOL.)
I scanned and emailed to Scott all the documentation and information I had concerning Athos and Vinetta and Vickie, and Vickie's claims concerning Athos' condition that I had in my possession. This included the contracts that Vickie had sent to me which she had signed, but I had not.
Cindy was terribly distressed at all this evidence of Vickie's betrayal of their partnership and friendship. And this is what I learned from Cindy in response:
Cindy and Vickie decided to buy Athos and Vinetta. Cindy would pay for Athos entirely, and would be his only owner. Vickie would buy Vinetta. This is not something I knew--Vickie represented herself as the perfect potential owner for two drivey Schutzhund 3 dogs and a home forever for both dogs.
I sold Athos to "Vickie" for $4000 + shipping. I sold Vinetta to Vickie for $3000 on term payments, with a deposit of $1500 + shipping. And she sent me $200 to find used crates and purchase them. That equals $5700.
Vickie told Cindy that Athos's entire purchase price was $5700. Cindy gave her the money, and Vickie made the down payment for Vinetta and put $200 for crates on the money Cindy unwittingly provided to her. Vickie did not pay a dime for Vinetta out of her own money, but swindled her "partner".
I would not release Athos' papers until the shipping was paid, as Vickie had promised (remember, at this time I still did not know Cindy owned Athos). The shipping for the two dogs was $820 (from Alaska). I deducted $200 for the used crates I never did find. The remainder was $620.
Vickie sent a check for $620, but I received the claim on Athos health before I got the check. So I said I'd hold the check she sent for shipping until the vet records arrived, being promised they'd arrive within two weeks.
Time passed, and I didn't see the records, no matter how many times Vickie said she would get them out tomorrow. Or Monday. I have NEVER seen the records from Oklahoma State University Center for Veterinarian Health Sciences, directly from OSU.
I eventually deposited the check for shipping, as I had not received the proof of Athos' condition. The account the check was written on was closed.
Cindy had given Vickie $620 for the extra shipping expense. It appears that Vickie pocketed Cindy's $620 she paid for shipping. Cindy never saw that money again. (Writing a check on a closed account is a felony, btw.)
I scanned and emailed to Scott all the documentation and information I had concerning Athos and Vinetta and Vickie, and Vickie's claims concerning Athos' condition that I had in my possession. This included the contracts that Vickie had sent to me which she had signed, but I had not.
Cindy was terribly distressed at all this evidence of Vickie's betrayal of their partnership and friendship. And this is what I learned from Cindy in response:
Cindy and Vickie decided to buy Athos and Vinetta. Cindy would pay for Athos entirely, and would be his only owner. Vickie would buy Vinetta. This is not something I knew--Vickie represented herself as the perfect potential owner for two drivey Schutzhund 3 dogs and a home forever for both dogs.
I sold Athos to "Vickie" for $4000 + shipping. I sold Vinetta to Vickie for $3000 on term payments, with a deposit of $1500 + shipping. And she sent me $200 to find used crates and purchase them. That equals $5700.
Vickie told Cindy that Athos's entire purchase price was $5700. Cindy gave her the money, and Vickie made the down payment for Vinetta and put $200 for crates on the money Cindy unwittingly provided to her. Vickie did not pay a dime for Vinetta out of her own money, but swindled her "partner".
I would not release Athos' papers until the shipping was paid, as Vickie had promised (remember, at this time I still did not know Cindy owned Athos). The shipping for the two dogs was $820 (from Alaska). I deducted $200 for the used crates I never did find. The remainder was $620.
Vickie sent a check for $620, but I received the claim on Athos health before I got the check. So I said I'd hold the check she sent for shipping until the vet records arrived, being promised they'd arrive within two weeks.
Time passed, and I didn't see the records, no matter how many times Vickie said she would get them out tomorrow. Or Monday. I have NEVER seen the records from Oklahoma State University Center for Veterinarian Health Sciences, directly from OSU.
I eventually deposited the check for shipping, as I had not received the proof of Athos' condition. The account the check was written on was closed.
Cindy had given Vickie $620 for the extra shipping expense. It appears that Vickie pocketed Cindy's $620 she paid for shipping. Cindy never saw that money again. (Writing a check on a closed account is a felony, btw.)
by AKVeronica60 on 08 August 2011 - 00:08
Vickie demanded compensation for a dog she never owned! I don't know if Cindy was even aware Vickie was asking for compensation for Athos' health. After all, I sold Athos with a six month fertility guarantee, not a health guarantee. But being honest myself, and presented with what I thought was a genuine claim even if I did not agree with the diagnosis of a congenital hole in the heart, I agreed to repay Vickie for Athos, since such a sick dog could not be bred.
Except, Athos is very fertile indeed.After getting all this information and proof of Vickie's duplicity from me (and crying a great deal), Cindy took Athos to be collected and indentified on June 29, 2011. Scott took a short video of the identification part of the vet exam. It was Athos. In his voice, I heard happiness. His body language said he cared for his owner. He looked good, if about 10-15 pounds overweight. I cried in great relief that Athos was not suffering and not dead.
While Vickie was off on a trip, Cindy took the initiative to rescue two of her dogs and her truck by herself by sweet talking Vickie's husband. Vickie still had Cindy's dog trailer. One of the dogs Cindy stole back had heartworms, despite the fact Cindy gave Vickie Heartgard to give to the dogs. You can ask Cindy about any further signs of physical abuse if you care to do so.
Is Athos healthy? Did he have a congenitial hole in his heart?
I saw a short video of Athos at the vet's office, taken during the identification part of his exam. He appeared healthy and happy, and this was indeed him. He was overweight to my eyes.
However, the only result of the vet exam related to me, other than identification of the dog, was that he had the sperm fertility and motility of a 3-4 year old dog. In fact, I was told the vet was not asked to verify any health issues, as that was not considered most important at the time.
So is Athos healthy? I cannot say for certain. I only saw a video in a vet's office. I have no proof of his good health or lack of it.
But here are some theories about Athos' health or lack of it:
As you know, Vickie not only accused me of selling her a dog with a congenital hole in the heart, but refused to send me the veterinary records sent via certified mail from the OSU vets directly to my vet in Alaska. Neither my vet nor I have ever received those records directly from OSU. Not to this day.
Except, Athos is very fertile indeed.After getting all this information and proof of Vickie's duplicity from me (and crying a great deal), Cindy took Athos to be collected and indentified on June 29, 2011. Scott took a short video of the identification part of the vet exam. It was Athos. In his voice, I heard happiness. His body language said he cared for his owner. He looked good, if about 10-15 pounds overweight. I cried in great relief that Athos was not suffering and not dead.
While Vickie was off on a trip, Cindy took the initiative to rescue two of her dogs and her truck by herself by sweet talking Vickie's husband. Vickie still had Cindy's dog trailer. One of the dogs Cindy stole back had heartworms, despite the fact Cindy gave Vickie Heartgard to give to the dogs. You can ask Cindy about any further signs of physical abuse if you care to do so.
Is Athos healthy? Did he have a congenitial hole in his heart?
I saw a short video of Athos at the vet's office, taken during the identification part of his exam. He appeared healthy and happy, and this was indeed him. He was overweight to my eyes.
However, the only result of the vet exam related to me, other than identification of the dog, was that he had the sperm fertility and motility of a 3-4 year old dog. In fact, I was told the vet was not asked to verify any health issues, as that was not considered most important at the time.
So is Athos healthy? I cannot say for certain. I only saw a video in a vet's office. I have no proof of his good health or lack of it.
But here are some theories about Athos' health or lack of it:
As you know, Vickie not only accused me of selling her a dog with a congenital hole in the heart, but refused to send me the veterinary records sent via certified mail from the OSU vets directly to my vet in Alaska. Neither my vet nor I have ever received those records directly from OSU. Not to this day.
by AKVeronica60 on 08 August 2011 - 00:08
As you know, Vickie not only accused me of selling her a dog with a congenital hole in the heart, but refused to send me the veterinary records sent via certified mail from the OSU vets directly to my vet in Alaska. Neither my vet nor I have ever received those records directly from OSU. Not to this day.
To lawfully attain such confidential records, according to Dr. Neer, Head of Veterinarians at the OSU Vet College, the owner of record must send a signed letter (mailed or faxed) giving permission for the vets to send the records. Or if a court order is obtained then the records may be acquired without owner consent, and a court order cannot be achieved without a civil lawsuit action.
There must be something seriously incriminating in those damned original, untampered with records.
For those of you who train Schutzhund dogs, surely it seems impossible to you, even as laymen, that a dog with a hole in his heart could compete internationally, with all the intense training that entails, and live through it with such a debilitating, oxygen-depriving condition. His huffy-puffy condition would be apparent to anyone observing the dog during training, which includes European judges.
My very experienced veterinarian here in Alaska has vetted many competition dogs of all kinds. He says such hard physical demands would kill the dog in question before he could ever reach the age of eight or nine. Furthermore, he says the irregular heartbeat and condition of the dog would have been detected long before he ever left Belgium, sometime within his career.
I had Athos very extensively (and expensively) vetted before I bought him: hip, elbow, and back x-rays, thyroid levels checked, brucellosis test, extensive health exam--with pictures to prove this was Athos being vetted, before I bought him.
Cindy had Athos vetted for health with her own veterinarian immediately after she received him. He passed with flying colors. Does that sound like a dog with an issue?
Maybe something else happened to Athos that was definitely not congenital?
Vickie has been rumored--from a direct source who saw the necropsy of Hessel--as having several dogs in her possession becoming possibly poisoned or die unexpectedly. And possibly not by a "neighbor", but by someone very close to her.
To lawfully attain such confidential records, according to Dr. Neer, Head of Veterinarians at the OSU Vet College, the owner of record must send a signed letter (mailed or faxed) giving permission for the vets to send the records. Or if a court order is obtained then the records may be acquired without owner consent, and a court order cannot be achieved without a civil lawsuit action.
There must be something seriously incriminating in those damned original, untampered with records.
For those of you who train Schutzhund dogs, surely it seems impossible to you, even as laymen, that a dog with a hole in his heart could compete internationally, with all the intense training that entails, and live through it with such a debilitating, oxygen-depriving condition. His huffy-puffy condition would be apparent to anyone observing the dog during training, which includes European judges.
My very experienced veterinarian here in Alaska has vetted many competition dogs of all kinds. He says such hard physical demands would kill the dog in question before he could ever reach the age of eight or nine. Furthermore, he says the irregular heartbeat and condition of the dog would have been detected long before he ever left Belgium, sometime within his career.
I had Athos very extensively (and expensively) vetted before I bought him: hip, elbow, and back x-rays, thyroid levels checked, brucellosis test, extensive health exam--with pictures to prove this was Athos being vetted, before I bought him.
Cindy had Athos vetted for health with her own veterinarian immediately after she received him. He passed with flying colors. Does that sound like a dog with an issue?
Maybe something else happened to Athos that was definitely not congenital?
Vickie has been rumored--from a direct source who saw the necropsy of Hessel--as having several dogs in her possession becoming possibly poisoned or die unexpectedly. And possibly not by a "neighbor", but by someone very close to her.
by AKVeronica60 on 08 August 2011 - 01:08
Two weeks after arrival, Cindy says, Athos was suddenly very sick, she feared he was dying, and rushed him to OSU. Was Athos poisoned? Could that possibly cause symptoms similar to cardiac issues, renal failure, and other serious conditions linked with a failing and congested heart?
You tell me.
Now Vinetta:
After a great deal of pressure was put on Vickie concerning legal actions and legal threats, on my part and the part of others she has wronged, Vickie decided to send Vinetta back to me to avoid lawsuits (Vickie said she was doing it because she had lost the will to live). She would NOT, however, allow anyone to pick Vinetta up, and that included my husband, Eric. He said he would fly from Alaska to Oklahoma and get his dog, and she protested. No one but Vickie would be allowed to take the dog for her health certificate. She alone must take the dog to the air cargo facility to be shipped, she'd put the dog in the crate herself at the airport.
Vickie refused all of my suggestions of people residing near Tulsa to meet her at the air cargo facility to pay for the shipping. I had to find someone who did not know her to meet her at the air cargo facility to pay for the shipping. There was no compromise with her on this issue.
Vickie took Vinetta (or some female dog) to Memorial Vet Hospital, where she passed a health exam for a health certificate and received a health certificate to fly. I paid for this via credit card to the vet.
I did not request proof of the identity of the dog being vetted, as I had other identification plans of which Vickie was unaware.
To mollify Vickie, payment of the shipping at the time of shipping was arranged with members of my husband's extended family. They agreed to meet Vickie at the air cargo facility in Tulsa at 5am in the morning. They had to drive in from Oklahoma City, a more than 100 mile trip one way to do this, because Vickie would not allow anyone she knew to meet her even to pay shipping.
Eric's cousin paid the shipping. When Vickie left, Eric's cousin canceled the shipment and handed Vinetta over to Scott Bakkala.
I had already arranged for Scott to wait nearby to take custody of Vinetta. He had her in the care of a competent vet in Tulsa as soon as the clinic opened their door for business that same morning.
The reason I had my cousin-in-law stop the shipment was because--if there was anything wrong with Vinetta--I could not hope to prove any possible bad health conditions or injuries had not occurred in Alaska.
You tell me.
Now Vinetta:
After a great deal of pressure was put on Vickie concerning legal actions and legal threats, on my part and the part of others she has wronged, Vickie decided to send Vinetta back to me to avoid lawsuits (Vickie said she was doing it because she had lost the will to live). She would NOT, however, allow anyone to pick Vinetta up, and that included my husband, Eric. He said he would fly from Alaska to Oklahoma and get his dog, and she protested. No one but Vickie would be allowed to take the dog for her health certificate. She alone must take the dog to the air cargo facility to be shipped, she'd put the dog in the crate herself at the airport.
Vickie refused all of my suggestions of people residing near Tulsa to meet her at the air cargo facility to pay for the shipping. I had to find someone who did not know her to meet her at the air cargo facility to pay for the shipping. There was no compromise with her on this issue.
Vickie took Vinetta (or some female dog) to Memorial Vet Hospital, where she passed a health exam for a health certificate and received a health certificate to fly. I paid for this via credit card to the vet.
I did not request proof of the identity of the dog being vetted, as I had other identification plans of which Vickie was unaware.
To mollify Vickie, payment of the shipping at the time of shipping was arranged with members of my husband's extended family. They agreed to meet Vickie at the air cargo facility in Tulsa at 5am in the morning. They had to drive in from Oklahoma City, a more than 100 mile trip one way to do this, because Vickie would not allow anyone she knew to meet her even to pay shipping.
Eric's cousin paid the shipping. When Vickie left, Eric's cousin canceled the shipment and handed Vinetta over to Scott Bakkala.
I had already arranged for Scott to wait nearby to take custody of Vinetta. He had her in the care of a competent vet in Tulsa as soon as the clinic opened their door for business that same morning.
The reason I had my cousin-in-law stop the shipment was because--if there was anything wrong with Vinetta--I could not hope to prove any possible bad health conditions or injuries had not occurred in Alaska.
by AKVeronica60 on 08 August 2011 - 01:08
I had very extensive exams done on Vinetta, as well as x-rays and lab work at the vet in Tulsa because of the many rumors of what has happened to the dogs under Vickie's care:
The rumors of possible issues are:
* brutal physical abuse,
*dogs fighting and one killing the other with no intervention to save the life of either dog
*poisoning of dogs under the ownership of Vickie Knighton Lanig.
*dogs coming back to their owners with heartworms despite the owner of the dog supplying Heartgard to prevent infestation.
The factual results of the vet exams of Vinetta:
After treatment for hookworms, and waiting for lab results on her heartworm test, which is currently negative, Scott shipped Vinetta back to me here in Alaska, where we plan to take good care of her and spoil her for the rest of her life.
Eric and I were wrong--someone else wasn't better for her than us, whether we are having health problems not. We'll all muddle through somehow from now on.
I am seldom on PDB. If you have questions, you may send me an email to: AKVeronica60@yahoo.com.
The rumors of possible issues are:
* brutal physical abuse,
*dogs fighting and one killing the other with no intervention to save the life of either dog
*poisoning of dogs under the ownership of Vickie Knighton Lanig.
*dogs coming back to their owners with heartworms despite the owner of the dog supplying Heartgard to prevent infestation.
The factual results of the vet exams of Vinetta:
- Vinetta has recently had puppies. In fact, Vickie showed two of Vinetta's puppies to my cousin-in-law at the airport. They had just turned six weeks. The puppies are reputedly sired by Birgit Hall's dog Sam. Brigit also owned the late Hessel. Brigit says neither dog was ever paid for in full.
- Vinetta had a bad case of hookworms and her stool was tar black (blood in the stool).
- Vinetta's German (sV) Registry ear tattoo was tampered with. Vinetta received her tattoo in Germany as a puppy, and it is noted on her SV registration and breed survey. Her tattoo has been checked many times because she has been trialed many times, earning a Schutzhund 1, 2, 3, IPO3, breed survey 1 for life (KKL1 lbz) and a tracking two title (FH2). That tattoo has been tampered with, and now sports more letters. What was the purpose of the tampering? Any guesses?
- Other exam particulars are good. Vinetta appears to be in decent health. X-rays revealed no broken bones and everything is normal for a dog of her age.
After treatment for hookworms, and waiting for lab results on her heartworm test, which is currently negative, Scott shipped Vinetta back to me here in Alaska, where we plan to take good care of her and spoil her for the rest of her life.
Eric and I were wrong--someone else wasn't better for her than us, whether we are having health problems not. We'll all muddle through somehow from now on.
I am seldom on PDB. If you have questions, you may send me an email to: AKVeronica60@yahoo.com.
by VomMarischal on 08 August 2011 - 01:08
As of Sunday afternoon, August 7, 2011, Vinetta is back home with me in Alaska
I'm just sitting here crying. I'm so happy!
by AKVeronica60 on 08 August 2011 - 01:08
Me too. Thank you for your help, VM, and the help of all those great people who called to offer advice and information, or emailed it to me.
I even had people who called to say "I can't help, but I hope you get your dogs back." There are a lot of good people in the world.
I even had people who called to say "I can't help, but I hope you get your dogs back." There are a lot of good people in the world.
by VomMarischal on 08 August 2011 - 01:08
Thank YOU for keeping on trying even when that nasty bitch was at her worst.
by eichenluft on 08 August 2011 - 01:08
awesome news about both dogs. is there anything you can do to prosecute vickie?
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