Blitzen, that would truely be a plus !

I don't understand why there can't be some cooperation between these researchers. All we are getting is why one test isn't as good as the other. How is that benefitting the breed? I've never looked at this as a test meant to eliminate dogs from a breeding program. Why would anyone even consider that?

The best any breeder can do currently is to follow their instincts and do what they feel is the right thing. 

I'm doing great too, Ulli. Thanks for asking.



 

Blitzen,
you are wellcome.
To a certain extent you are right - following your instinct is ok, but to put it to a percentage :
Knowledge : 70%
Instinct      : 25%
Gut feeling :  5%  !!
Just joking, everyone will have to figure that out for themselves. But all should use the info at hand, HD/ED results, breeding schemes, trail results......... ok, it's hard - we just now are beeing tought that these results also maybe questionable. But what would be the alternative ? We have & should use what we have at hand, it's the best we have.
We should not, as you correctly say, base our decision onto something that is knowingly not proofen.
Ulli

Blitzen: I agree, sounds like a fight for research dollars. So, Marjorie, you don't believe in the University of Missouri research? Is that what this is about? 

Or anybody elses research on DM genetics? How about a link to yours? 

What am I missing about this?

bump...

Seems to be a lack of answers to my questions ...  So I wonder, is this just a grand-stand declaration? 

I was very disappointed to see so many hopes, possiblys and maybe's in the statement from DOGenes too. I found the information on their website about it very limited and hence I framed my own initial response to it very carefully.

Since it costs nothing to send in samples to further ANY research I think it can only be worthwhile.

However, what I did not say before is that the dealings that I know some have had with this company before have not what I would call professional for other DNA tests. The DNA samples are not required to be submitted by a vet, and so could come from any dog - there is no requirement for identification via a third party. That bothers me a great deal.

It worries me deeply that anyone encourages others to disparage or discard existing tests when they are all that we currently have to work with. Cynic that I am, I always think that those who do so are happy to hang their hat on a reason not to test, or have other motives. I was always taught to read between the lines at what is NOT being said.

No one suggested throwing them all out of the gene pool!
My understanding is that there are clinical trials being undertaken right now for ALS drugs to treat DM. That is the whole point...it is a trial to see if it works. Much research is trial and error.
Original research said@:

Genome-wide association analysis reveals a SOD1 mutation in canine degenerative myelopathy that resembles amyotrophic lateral sclerosis

Recent research (from Finland) says: 
Taken together with the D90A SOD1 mutation, 87% of familial ALS in Finland is now explained by a simple monogenic cause. The repeat expansion is also present in one-third of familial ALS cases of outbred European descent, making it the most common genetic cause of these fatal neurodegenerative diseases identified to date.

Science is not entirely sure about a lot of things to do with both ALS and DM and many other diseases, but to cast everything aside whilst a definitive answer is sought is folly. You say generations have not been followed through. No they have not - yet, but tested dogs will be. If none are tested they cannot be. What would be the ultimate bad joke for the GSD is that while this horrible disease besets the breed we stand aside and do nothing.

Abby, thank you for a great post.

 --->What would be the ultimate bad joke for the GSD is that while this horrible disease besets the breed we stand aside and do nothing.

If the test is not for a disease our breed gets, its the same as doing nothing, or worse, discouraging further research to find the truth. The SOD1 test is not the answer to GSDM and until people realize that, there can be no progress in eradicating the disease from our breed. My sweet Missie T is in the advanced stages of DM, which leaves me little free time. She weighs the same as me, and I am lifting her and moving her all day long. She is still happy, she goes out in her cart, she is still pottying outside, eating well and she is not disposable, so I am committed to helping her for as long as she is still happy. That being said, I obviously have a huge stake in caring about DM and what it does to one beloved fur kids, family life ( I have been sleeping downstairs on a sofa bed for 8 months now, since she cannot do the stairs) but going in the wrong direction not only doesnt help- it HURTS the goal of finding the cause of DM. Would doing a polio test in a GSD with GSDM do any good? No- so why do any test that has no relation to the DM of the GSD???? ALS and DM are far from being the same disease- the symptoms dont match, diagnostic tests dont match and the etilogy of the two diseases are completely different.

Sadly, politics precludes researchers working together.  The AKCCHF is responsible, IMHO, for alot of the lack of cooperation between researchers. Again, IMHO They have their favorite researchers and dont give a damn if there is good or bad science behind the research projects they fund. They fund the very same researchers over and over again. No trespassers allowed! They seem, IMHO, to have no problem with researchers taking other researchers work as their own, and then awarding grants to  their own underlings who work at the same University they work at. Does that encourage cooperation between researchers, or massive distrust????? Thats BS! One reaps what one sows. IMHO, they are a useless organization that should be replaced with a REAL agency that cares about dogs, not money. The AKC wont even do anything about animal abuse reported to them. They need to be disbanded immediately for the good of the dog world.

Personally, I would welcome a researcher who would prove that the SOD1 test is not a good test for GSDM. Dont let a *business* put you off- do people really believe that the AKCCHF is not a *business*???? LOL- no one packs in the bucks quite like they do ! The SOD1 test is a cash cow for both the AKCCHF and the OFA! As I have said many times before, a rose by any other name is still a rose, and a stink weed is stilll a stinkweed, even if it is called a rose ;)

Marjorie
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
BE PROACTIVE!
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group  

--- >You say generations have not been followed through. No they have not - yet, but tested dogs will be.

Wrongo! Progeny of a clear sire and DM are automatically clear, according to the OFA. That is making a big leap of faith that they are right about the SOD1 (or putting blinders on) or refuse to admit they might be wrong, or else the progeny would NOT receive an automatic clear! That progeny would be followed to see if it did, in fact, test clear,  or indeed develop DM or produce DM dogs, when bred. Automatic clears should be out of the question, at this stage of the research. I dont like presumptions, when dealing with such a horrible disease.  We dont need broad brush speculation- we need cold hard facts. This whole thing is very premature, as no follow-ups have been done. There is no reason this sod1 test should be floated around like the gospel, when the science behind it is so flawed and geneartions have not been tested. 

--- >"Yet- tested they will be"

HUH?????
Breeders are claiming to have DM free lines and litters because their sire and dam tested clear- is that not also premature?  How can these claiims be made, without a follow up???? That assumes that the SOD1 is the sole cause of DM. Please tell me no one is naive enough to believe that... I dont have a great deal of faith in humanity, but that would destroy the few shreds I have left... Ya dont think they should wait till the follow up has been done, if this is correct science to proclaim progeny clear and say they will not produce future dogs with DM??? ????? How can one run to the finish line , when they havent even gone halfway down the field yet, or even learned to walk???? This is just nuts :( No- I take that back- its just plain irresponsible! They are setting themselves up for a  class action lawsuit, when this SOD1 is proved to be a non issue in the big picture of a dog developing  DM.  Again, they have not proved a causual relationship- only a casual relationship. The ramifications of their proclamations are frightening.

Last, but not least, the OFA is promoting a test they dont understand. I called the OFA and spoke with Dr Keller. I asked him pointed questions about the disparity between the diagnostic test results and the etiologies of ALS vs DM. He could not answer my questions- he had no knowledge of it. How can an organization with the status of the OFA- a supposedly trusted organization, be promoting a test it does not understand? If they dont understand it, how do they know it is correct or good science???? Because the AKCCHF says so??????? Pfffffffffffff. Peer reviews are judged by researchers of  guess what organization? Duuuuuuuuuh- The AKCCHF.... LOL! There's a hole in the bucklet, dear Liza, dear Liza.......

--->  So, Marjorie, you don't believe in the University of Missouri research? Is that what this is about?
 
No, beetree, I do not believe in the U of Missouri research for OUR breed of dog! ( I dont know enough about DM of other breeds to weigh in on that, so I wont). However, I emphatically do not believe it is valid research in relation to DM of the GSD. The GSD has its own unique DM. All breeds get a chronic and progressive degeneration of the spine, but that does not mean they are all the same DM. Diagnostic tests say DM is an autoimmune disease, while ALS is a motor unit disease. DM of the GSD does not fit the criteria of a motor unit disease- not by any stretch of the imagination. Test results are 180 degrees apart.