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by freemont on 01 January 2010 - 01:01
Jenni78 (and Scout),
I wasn't implying that the dog HAD to be instructed in 2 languages in order to differentiate between the 2 tasks, necessarily. However I find it very interesting that the dog was given essentially 2 commands for a similar type of task and it understood the difference. I was merely and happily pointing out that here is a real live example of a WORKING gsd actively and successfully operating in two different environments- SAR and protection.
Jenni- a few things to keep in mind though- a working dog is not always given the same handler----- so relying on the dog to read a handler's demeaner is not always a good game plan. Also, in SAR a dog can be hundreds of yards away from a handler (out of site) and not reading the handler's emotions at that point. Also in SAR, victims are NOT ALWAYS docile and accepting of being found by a k9. Victims in sar can be cantankorous, violent, unwieldy and unpredictable too. You always want to do whatever it takes to set you dog up for SUCCESS!
Yes- TRUST you dog but never compromise your dog!
I wasn't implying that the dog HAD to be instructed in 2 languages in order to differentiate between the 2 tasks, necessarily. However I find it very interesting that the dog was given essentially 2 commands for a similar type of task and it understood the difference. I was merely and happily pointing out that here is a real live example of a WORKING gsd actively and successfully operating in two different environments- SAR and protection.
Jenni- a few things to keep in mind though- a working dog is not always given the same handler----- so relying on the dog to read a handler's demeaner is not always a good game plan. Also, in SAR a dog can be hundreds of yards away from a handler (out of site) and not reading the handler's emotions at that point. Also in SAR, victims are NOT ALWAYS docile and accepting of being found by a k9. Victims in sar can be cantankorous, violent, unwieldy and unpredictable too. You always want to do whatever it takes to set you dog up for SUCCESS!
Yes- TRUST you dog but never compromise your dog!
by Jenni78 on 01 January 2010 - 02:01
Freemont, I was speaking generally, not toward you. Your post just got me thinking about this subject, that's all, and I spun off on that one part.
And if the dog finds someone cantankerous, hell, let him bite. LOL. That'll teach 'em to get lost and be crabby when they get found!
And if the dog finds someone cantankerous, hell, let him bite. LOL. That'll teach 'em to get lost and be crabby when they get found!
by ALPHAPUP on 01 January 2010 - 12:01
scout , freemont and GTDAJ -- nice commentary from you all . Have a good 2010 .. I think the input you all give just exemplify why out of all breeds the HSD is THE BEST , hands down out of all the world's breed [ no misgiivings to the mal , i had some, but the GSD is a much more pensive , calm cool and collected dog. ] Yes it can differentaite as it THINKS" '-- , a great problem solver. .......... BTW Jenn ... there is merit in what you say .. like a coin .. truth lies on both sides at the same time.. most often i teach a dog ... without ever ever saying a word ... that is the great part of this thread .. everyone
had some valitlity in their comments. Have a great 2010 ..signing off .......AP
had some valitlity in their comments. Have a great 2010 ..signing off .......AP
by Slamdunc on 02 January 2010 - 20:01
Freemont,
I would like to speak to the K9 handler that was able to use his dog for both off lead suspect apprehension and a SAR mission off lead. I am not saying it's impossible, but I'd like to hear it from the Handler and not 3rd or 4 th person. Things get lost in translation and sometimes really good stories are made.
A working police K9 has a job when sent off lead to apprehend a suspect, we don't even teach a hold and bark we teach a find and bite / hold. Even a dog taught a hold and bark is taught to bite when the suspect moves. To teach a dog two searching techniques one find and hold or find and be friends is very confusing to the dog. There is way too much liability involved. First, the dog is sent to apprehend a dangerous felon. The felon is passive and friendly to the dog when found; what does the dog do? The dog should engage! A dog trained to do SAR type finds may revert back to a friendly good natured dog and that is very dangerous for the handler and dog.
Second, the dog is sent to find a missing Alzheimer's patient who is volatile what will the dog do?
I do not know of any handler that will accept this liability on both sides of the equation. A police dogs primary job is finding and apprehending bad guys, that is how it should be. I have tracked and located missing persons on several occasions, but my dog is never off lead doing this because my dog will bite the person when located. I will not jeopardize my safety or anyone else's by trying to convert him to do both. IMO, it is counterproductive. If there is any question during a search of whether the subject should be bitten my dog stays on lead.
JMO,
Jim
I would like to speak to the K9 handler that was able to use his dog for both off lead suspect apprehension and a SAR mission off lead. I am not saying it's impossible, but I'd like to hear it from the Handler and not 3rd or 4 th person. Things get lost in translation and sometimes really good stories are made.
A working police K9 has a job when sent off lead to apprehend a suspect, we don't even teach a hold and bark we teach a find and bite / hold. Even a dog taught a hold and bark is taught to bite when the suspect moves. To teach a dog two searching techniques one find and hold or find and be friends is very confusing to the dog. There is way too much liability involved. First, the dog is sent to apprehend a dangerous felon. The felon is passive and friendly to the dog when found; what does the dog do? The dog should engage! A dog trained to do SAR type finds may revert back to a friendly good natured dog and that is very dangerous for the handler and dog.
Second, the dog is sent to find a missing Alzheimer's patient who is volatile what will the dog do?
I do not know of any handler that will accept this liability on both sides of the equation. A police dogs primary job is finding and apprehending bad guys, that is how it should be. I have tracked and located missing persons on several occasions, but my dog is never off lead doing this because my dog will bite the person when located. I will not jeopardize my safety or anyone else's by trying to convert him to do both. IMO, it is counterproductive. If there is any question during a search of whether the subject should be bitten my dog stays on lead.
JMO,
Jim
by Adi Ibrahimbegovic on 03 January 2010 - 08:01
Daryl, the third dog's picture in your post, the one that is standing on some square tiles... what is the name of that dog?
I'll bet 20 bucks I can trace my puppy born in 2008 to THAT dog, they look frighteningly alike!
I'll bet 20 bucks I can trace my puppy born in 2008 to THAT dog, they look frighteningly alike!
by Adi Ibrahimbegovic on 03 January 2010 - 09:01
Wise words, slamdunc... there is no friggin' "barkand hold" with police k9, that woud go to hel pretty soon and resut in dead dog.
There is rather "bite and hold" which is better.he he he
Bark and hold in real police deployment always reminds me of a funny scene in an Indiana Jones movie when Indy is in Cairo and out of the crowd a bad guy comes out doing some fancy tricks, loops and manouvers with a sword, I guess threatening him...
Indy just ooks at him for a bit, cooly unholsters his gun and shoots the bastard....
There is rather "bite and hold" which is better.he he he
Bark and hold in real police deployment always reminds me of a funny scene in an Indiana Jones movie when Indy is in Cairo and out of the crowd a bad guy comes out doing some fancy tricks, loops and manouvers with a sword, I guess threatening him...
Indy just ooks at him for a bit, cooly unholsters his gun and shoots the bastard....
by darylehret on 03 January 2010 - 10:01
"Bill von Rommelburg", Field Trial Champion, 1916. Owned by Hill Top Farm Kennels, Greenwich CT.
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