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by Penny on 03 August 2010 - 12:08
But if you like that look you can pick up any little cross-breed from any little pound ??? You can even take it home and call it a pure bred GSD if it makes you happy - but make no real mistake, if it looks like that its not a GSD - its a cross-breed - call it a Panda if you will but remember some-one sat in their front rom and invented that name, a Panda is a totally differing type of animal, This dog looks like any other cross-breed., sometimes cute, often found in rescue centres, and never called a pure bred. Mo.
by geordiegaviino on 03 August 2010 - 12:08
by KCzaja on 02 August 2009 - 02:08
KCzaja
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 03:48 pm
"I'm coming into this late, but: I think "pandas" are another load of crap to make money and to make inexperienced idiots feel like they have something special and rare. Any "pandas" that work? No, just like every other bastardized version of the GSD.
I'm going to side with an earlier poster and take it a bit further, you can think I'm heartless if you want: but if I threw a panda, white, liver, blue....I'd humanely cull it, sell every puppy on limited reg no matter how nice it was, never repeat the breeding, and very seriously consider spaying the mother. There are plenty of money hungry BYBs out there to produce those dogs, and I wont join their ranks. Sorry."
So let me get this straight you would kill a innocent HEALTHY puppy cause you had a "fault" in your lines? Why not sell if for a lesser price under a contract of sale that says the puppy must NOT be bred from? You are a disgrace and them culling views are outdated and should be made illegal in the 21st centuary! Stop trying to sound impressive cause you dont and your just showing us that as a breeder, us owners should stay well away from you and your litters and hope you end your practice cause you clearly dont care about the dogs you breed all you see is the MONEY and the REPUTATION.
KCzaja
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 03:48 pm
"I'm coming into this late, but: I think "pandas" are another load of crap to make money and to make inexperienced idiots feel like they have something special and rare. Any "pandas" that work? No, just like every other bastardized version of the GSD.
I'm going to side with an earlier poster and take it a bit further, you can think I'm heartless if you want: but if I threw a panda, white, liver, blue....I'd humanely cull it, sell every puppy on limited reg no matter how nice it was, never repeat the breeding, and very seriously consider spaying the mother. There are plenty of money hungry BYBs out there to produce those dogs, and I wont join their ranks. Sorry."
So let me get this straight you would kill a innocent HEALTHY puppy cause you had a "fault" in your lines? Why not sell if for a lesser price under a contract of sale that says the puppy must NOT be bred from? You are a disgrace and them culling views are outdated and should be made illegal in the 21st centuary! Stop trying to sound impressive cause you dont and your just showing us that as a breeder, us owners should stay well away from you and your litters and hope you end your practice cause you clearly dont care about the dogs you breed all you see is the MONEY and the REPUTATION.
by geordiegaviino on 03 August 2010 - 12:08
Penny i agree i could but i like i stated only if it is 100% GSD i would want one. Yes it does look like a cross breed and i dont want a cross breed. I own a GSD x Collie and she is lovely but she looks nothing like any of those pictures if am honest. She has a beauty all to herself :)
I am not sorry that i like the look of these dogs showing on the posts
I am not sorry that i like the look of these dogs showing on the posts
by Dex on 03 August 2010 - 14:08
There seen to have been some quite controversial comments on this thread - I certainly agree with the posters saying that to 'cull' any pup just becuase it has a colour not liked is disgusting and I sincerely hope the person advocating that is not now, or ever, in a position to breed - I for one would not come near you. Also, if someone were to decide whether or not to breed from a 'panda' (whatever that may mean), why do others on here feel it it their right to say what someone should or should not do? Are you all suddenly the breed police?
What people fail to recognise in all this talk of colours and slating certain breeders that don't tie in wih the breed standard and who claim that letting in all these colours can cause things like health problems, well, why don't those very people see THEY are also breeding for colour??
I really do not get the big deal about this - it seems very much a clique of people saying that nothing but the so called 'standard' should be allowed. Answer this - why in that case has the standard changed so much over the decades? If you want to stick to the original line, why do you not agree when it was claimed there was no such thing as bad colour?
In other threads breeders been targetted, claiming that they are less likely to consider health issues because they breed outside the 'standard' and here we have people saying 'pandas' should not be bred from, or should even be culled. Where exactly are these caring health concerns in all of this? It is purely down to some kind of fashion - no-one could say in this instance it is down to temperament or workability as you have no basis. For those that say, 'oh, it must be a cross-breed looking like that' - well you obviously have not listened to some comments regarding genetics but, I would suggest, you print off the pictures, take a transparent piece of paper and draw the outline of the dog on it then colour it in with black and brown coloured pencils - any similarity now? still think it doesn't look right?
What people fail to recognise in all this talk of colours and slating certain breeders that don't tie in wih the breed standard and who claim that letting in all these colours can cause things like health problems, well, why don't those very people see THEY are also breeding for colour??
I really do not get the big deal about this - it seems very much a clique of people saying that nothing but the so called 'standard' should be allowed. Answer this - why in that case has the standard changed so much over the decades? If you want to stick to the original line, why do you not agree when it was claimed there was no such thing as bad colour?
In other threads breeders been targetted, claiming that they are less likely to consider health issues because they breed outside the 'standard' and here we have people saying 'pandas' should not be bred from, or should even be culled. Where exactly are these caring health concerns in all of this? It is purely down to some kind of fashion - no-one could say in this instance it is down to temperament or workability as you have no basis. For those that say, 'oh, it must be a cross-breed looking like that' - well you obviously have not listened to some comments regarding genetics but, I would suggest, you print off the pictures, take a transparent piece of paper and draw the outline of the dog on it then colour it in with black and brown coloured pencils - any similarity now? still think it doesn't look right?
by Rookabadooka on 03 August 2010 - 20:08
Hello.
As you can see from the picture in my avatar I was the owner of a beautiful Piebald dog. She is not a Panda. She lived to be 12. On July 10 I had to send her to the rainbow bridge. She was the greatest, and I miss her terribly. She was an amazing GSD.
To make a long story short (you can read it other places on the board) I was given her by a man who bred GSDs. He had "gotten rid of" her mother and was going to do the same with her. I took her. She was so small i had to hand feed her.
Abbie is was standard piebald vs. a Panda. Panda's coloring, according to a geneticist hired by the Panda folks, comes from a dominant mutation. Abbie is that standard S that pops up now and again. I actually have a post on the general topic side debating the percentage of their births. I am curious as to how rare they really are given the attitudes of many breeders regarding coat color and the culling practices of said breeders. I was wondering what others experiences had been, or if they had interacted with or owned one themselves.
In my experience I have to say, by destroying these dogs you are missing out. I would have put Abbie up against ANY GSD anytime, anywhere. She was smart, loyal, fast and agile. If she had a whiff of an object you could throw that thing into the woods as far and long as possible and she would find it. It was her best party trick...lol. She could also be gentle as a lamb. She was simply magic with my kids. Obviously like with any dog. You are going to have the good and the bad in any breed. Coat color is not the determinant though.
THIS IS NOT an endorsement for breeding dogs for specific mutations! I think breeding simply for coat color or eye color or whatever is a bad idea and detrimental. I understand that culling is decision that has to made at times for a pup with life threatening birth or mental defects. I can see it being done for quality of life issues as well.
I am not a breeder. I am not a professional dog trainer. I was a dog owner. My family feels like a hole has been punched through it. These animals can be placed. There are people out there who will take them, and bond with them, and cherish them. I am living proof. As we begin our search for a new pup to invite into our family I have learned quite abit from many fine folks here. I hope maybe my story has helped add a bit more tolerance. It is the awesomeness inside a GSD that makes them the amazing breed they are. I think finding the coat color of choice is just icing on an already incredible cake.
Thank You for taking the time to read this
~Rooka
As you can see from the picture in my avatar I was the owner of a beautiful Piebald dog. She is not a Panda. She lived to be 12. On July 10 I had to send her to the rainbow bridge. She was the greatest, and I miss her terribly. She was an amazing GSD.
To make a long story short (you can read it other places on the board) I was given her by a man who bred GSDs. He had "gotten rid of" her mother and was going to do the same with her. I took her. She was so small i had to hand feed her.
Abbie is was standard piebald vs. a Panda. Panda's coloring, according to a geneticist hired by the Panda folks, comes from a dominant mutation. Abbie is that standard S that pops up now and again. I actually have a post on the general topic side debating the percentage of their births. I am curious as to how rare they really are given the attitudes of many breeders regarding coat color and the culling practices of said breeders. I was wondering what others experiences had been, or if they had interacted with or owned one themselves.
In my experience I have to say, by destroying these dogs you are missing out. I would have put Abbie up against ANY GSD anytime, anywhere. She was smart, loyal, fast and agile. If she had a whiff of an object you could throw that thing into the woods as far and long as possible and she would find it. It was her best party trick...lol. She could also be gentle as a lamb. She was simply magic with my kids. Obviously like with any dog. You are going to have the good and the bad in any breed. Coat color is not the determinant though.
THIS IS NOT an endorsement for breeding dogs for specific mutations! I think breeding simply for coat color or eye color or whatever is a bad idea and detrimental. I understand that culling is decision that has to made at times for a pup with life threatening birth or mental defects. I can see it being done for quality of life issues as well.
I am not a breeder. I am not a professional dog trainer. I was a dog owner. My family feels like a hole has been punched through it. These animals can be placed. There are people out there who will take them, and bond with them, and cherish them. I am living proof. As we begin our search for a new pup to invite into our family I have learned quite abit from many fine folks here. I hope maybe my story has helped add a bit more tolerance. It is the awesomeness inside a GSD that makes them the amazing breed they are. I think finding the coat color of choice is just icing on an already incredible cake.
Thank You for taking the time to read this
~Rooka
by geordiegaviino on 03 August 2010 - 20:08
Rooka - i think your words of truth should close this post. Its simple, these dogs could go to great pet homes. No one is encouraging their breeding we just want breeders too see that they wont be unwanted pups and that they dont have to be killed
by Dex on 03 August 2010 - 21:08
@geordiegaviino (and others) - what difference would it make on whether they go to pet homes or bred for working stock? why is everyone getting bogged down in a 'standard' because of colour? It is clear here that no-one can claim that these dogs are any less able capable than compared to 'standard' GSDs. The 'standard' colour is a fashion statement - nothing else. Providing the dogs are GSDs through and through, have the tempermant and manner of proper GSDs, then why so much fuss about a colour? Why shouldn't they be bred? Wouldn't using every colour out there help the line as opposed to limiting it to 'standard' coloured GSDs only?
It's the same old, same old, with colour - why are so many all consumed about something so trivial when it it health, temperament and working ability which are the primary concerns. Whether people like or dislike a particular colour has no relevance to the ability or health of the animal itself. Some would just like to go around and tell others what they should and should not be using for breed purposes, all because of some colour - fortunately, we do not live in such a state, and nor are we ever likely to, to have a person or group go around and act as judge and jury regarding the decision on what animal is bred from depending on the colour. It would sit more easily with me if they were to apply conditions concerning health, but that is all in my book. Ultimately, there is no getting away from it, however much people want to fuss and argue over it - if it is a GSD, from a solid GSD line, then it is pointless trying to class it as a different breed. It should be accepted for what it is, a GSD with a certain colour/s, no more, no less.
It's the same old, same old, with colour - why are so many all consumed about something so trivial when it it health, temperament and working ability which are the primary concerns. Whether people like or dislike a particular colour has no relevance to the ability or health of the animal itself. Some would just like to go around and tell others what they should and should not be using for breed purposes, all because of some colour - fortunately, we do not live in such a state, and nor are we ever likely to, to have a person or group go around and act as judge and jury regarding the decision on what animal is bred from depending on the colour. It would sit more easily with me if they were to apply conditions concerning health, but that is all in my book. Ultimately, there is no getting away from it, however much people want to fuss and argue over it - if it is a GSD, from a solid GSD line, then it is pointless trying to class it as a different breed. It should be accepted for what it is, a GSD with a certain colour/s, no more, no less.
by Samba on 03 August 2010 - 21:08
Yes, the Panda is a GSD through and through. It is not a mixed breed and saying that it is a mix does not make it so.
by Rookabadooka on 04 August 2010 - 02:08
I'll lay it on the line right here
You have a piebald pup in your litter contact me. No one will ever know. I will GUARENTEE a loving happy home for said pup. You have a pup with a bum ear or 6 toes I will take him / her. I will give him / her a loving / happy home. People like us, we want a companion, not a champion. Said dog will have walks in the morning, ball, frisbee and chase with 2 stunning (if I do say so myself) young boys. The pup will get to run and play on the beach and spend the evening cuddleing on the couch with my snuggy boys watching disney movies eating treats. We soooo sooo miss our Abbie. We know we could never replace her, I would never try. We just hope to find a pup to love and care for as much as Abbie did us. I was blessed, A situation like that is a once in a life time, a gift. I hope I can give back.
Thank You for reading my post
~Rooka
You have a piebald pup in your litter contact me. No one will ever know. I will GUARENTEE a loving happy home for said pup. You have a pup with a bum ear or 6 toes I will take him / her. I will give him / her a loving / happy home. People like us, we want a companion, not a champion. Said dog will have walks in the morning, ball, frisbee and chase with 2 stunning (if I do say so myself) young boys. The pup will get to run and play on the beach and spend the evening cuddleing on the couch with my snuggy boys watching disney movies eating treats. We soooo sooo miss our Abbie. We know we could never replace her, I would never try. We just hope to find a pup to love and care for as much as Abbie did us. I was blessed, A situation like that is a once in a life time, a gift. I hope I can give back.
Thank You for reading my post
~Rooka
by Penny on 04 August 2010 - 08:08
And I agree with all of the above sentiments about giving a dog of this type a home, not culling etc etc - but what I disagree with is giving them a name which "types" them. I recently had two brown GSD`s born in a litter. I wouldnt have wanted to have them, but they were healthy and lovely, and are in loving homes, on the understanding they are to be spayed at my cost, when the time comes. They were sold and I had to write on to the pedigrees that they were not LIVER GSD`s - because the KC didnt have a box for brown. I argued long and hard with the registration department THEY ARE BROWN but because their pc didnt fit that description - they put them down as LIVER.
Why did I object?
Liver is for specific breeds, i.e. the Liver and Whit Spaniel. Perfectly acceptable. Hovever, if we begin to accept Liver GSD`s as an acceptance to the standard, then we will have pretty soon tri-colour GSD - etc etc - black and white GSD etc etc snd the whole issue does not end in colour.
Brown was put in a document to my two puppy owners as a colour fault, and not to be bred from, and they love them to bits, they went to homes that would NEVER breed, and they are proud of them, Dr Malcolm Willis knows the pitfalls of colour, which he says is not just a problem of colour, it is WHY certain puppies become that colour, which is genetically a fault for reasons beyond my education - but if bred from and produced for the reason of producing non standard colours, they could then have problems of differing sorts.
So. My thought is - if they occur in your litter, look after them, but secure the fact that they will have brilliant homes, not to be bred from and make your new owner aware that it is a fault and becomes a problem if bred from for that reason. Dont name them Panda as it is making them a wanted item. Dont lets start websites up for Panda GSD`s. Lets keep to the correct GSD and iron out their faults, without diverting to other things.
Putting our house in order before we decorate it comes to mind. Mo.
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