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by Trotters123 on 23 October 2009 - 19:10
NikkiF: Thank you for explaining it in more detail and may I add with decorum and non condisending tone. I appreciate that and it can actually go to encouraging more people to look seriously into it.
I do understand about DNA from crime scenes and this is exactly the reason that most are found to be non conclusive at trial level. This is the down side of it.
I do not think EVERYBODY is 'at it' or 'dishonest' but I do not wear rose tinted glasses either. This is a cruel and greedy world unfortunately and when big money is at stake then I am afraid somepeople do resort to falsehoods. It is a way of life.
My point really was that shouldn't it be the case where ANY test done on ANY dog be identifiable, this then would stop the few being tempted. Hip and Elbow scoring has either the microchip number or tattoo number on the xrays, why can't something be worked out on this test also. I am sure someone with more 'rational judgement' and 'limited knowledge' could come up with something to make it more secure. THIS I feel is what a lot of people are worried about, not the cost, not the knowledge or lack thereof, not the stigma if something negative is found but the reliability of it.
I shudder to think if a test came back positive and the kennel stopped using that line and came out and admitted this and then later on it was found to be a false reading......I know someone is going to jump on me for this opinion, but this is what a Forum is for....OPINIONS. Right or wrong. A forum is here to pass knowledge from one to another and to maybe gain an insight into a subject unfamiliar. There is no hard and fast rules for everyone agreeing all of the time and certainly people are entitled to disagree with a point without being bombarded with childish, bullying comments.
NikkiF you have helped me understand a little better, but I am still not 100% convinced so there is still hope that I will change my mind.
On the point of the dogs mentioned. I do not have ANY of these in any of my lines.
Thank you once again NikkiF for taking the time and trouble to reply in such a constructive manner.
Frank
I do understand about DNA from crime scenes and this is exactly the reason that most are found to be non conclusive at trial level. This is the down side of it.
I do not think EVERYBODY is 'at it' or 'dishonest' but I do not wear rose tinted glasses either. This is a cruel and greedy world unfortunately and when big money is at stake then I am afraid somepeople do resort to falsehoods. It is a way of life.
My point really was that shouldn't it be the case where ANY test done on ANY dog be identifiable, this then would stop the few being tempted. Hip and Elbow scoring has either the microchip number or tattoo number on the xrays, why can't something be worked out on this test also. I am sure someone with more 'rational judgement' and 'limited knowledge' could come up with something to make it more secure. THIS I feel is what a lot of people are worried about, not the cost, not the knowledge or lack thereof, not the stigma if something negative is found but the reliability of it.
I shudder to think if a test came back positive and the kennel stopped using that line and came out and admitted this and then later on it was found to be a false reading......I know someone is going to jump on me for this opinion, but this is what a Forum is for....OPINIONS. Right or wrong. A forum is here to pass knowledge from one to another and to maybe gain an insight into a subject unfamiliar. There is no hard and fast rules for everyone agreeing all of the time and certainly people are entitled to disagree with a point without being bombarded with childish, bullying comments.
NikkiF you have helped me understand a little better, but I am still not 100% convinced so there is still hope that I will change my mind.
On the point of the dogs mentioned. I do not have ANY of these in any of my lines.
Thank you once again NikkiF for taking the time and trouble to reply in such a constructive manner.
Frank
by Csense on 23 October 2009 - 22:10
David,
Could you post Busters 20 page autopsy report confirming Buster died from JRD,
(as you promised 2+ yrs ago)
I must have missed it.
Strange how Busters vet got a diagnosis of JRD using a only a blood test,
I didn't think JRD was diagnosable using haematology?
Please correct me if I am misinformed.
Could you post Busters 20 page autopsy report confirming Buster died from JRD,
(as you promised 2+ yrs ago)
I must have missed it.
Strange how Busters vet got a diagnosis of JRD using a only a blood test,
I didn't think JRD was diagnosable using haematology?
Please correct me if I am misinformed.
by Videx on 23 October 2009 - 23:10
Csense: I never offered to post any such thing.
Buster was a son of CORJON MARK.
in a few hundred hours some readers, a few perhaps, may be able to come to a highly probable conclusion.
Buster was a son of CORJON MARK.
in a few hundred hours some readers, a few perhaps, may be able to come to a highly probable conclusion.
by Csense on 23 October 2009 - 23:10
David,
I know perfectly well Buster was a son of Corjon Mark that wasnt my question.
I know perfectly well Buster was a son of Corjon Mark that wasnt my question.
by Videx on 24 October 2009 - 01:10
look at the first line of my reply
by Csense on 24 October 2009 - 12:10
"Strange how Busters vet got a diagnosis of JRD using a only a blood test,
I didn't think JRD was diagnosable using haematology?"
David, Is JRD possible to diagnose accurately with a blood test ?"
Please don't take this as being rude, but you are forever telling people to
re-read your posts.
David it seems you didn't read mine...
You stated you had a 20 page autopsy report for buster, perhaps you could tell me who has it now? or how I could obtain a copy.
Such a statement is irrelevant when you haven't provided proof.
Somewhere I have a saved page, where I am sure you said you would post it,
If I find where you said this I will post it.
perhaps I am wrong I will have a look.
It would be good to see the proof .
by bazza on 24 October 2009 - 13:10
Csense, i remember the 20 page autopsy claim very well, however i think those thresds were "deleted" for whatever reasons, maybe the same reasons that the article Tigermouse posted still cannot be read. I have also read the story of Buster many times, and maybe David can explain to us ignorant folks how Buster had a blood test done one day and the very next day it came back positive for JRD. Maybe we should all go to this vet as he gets the results quicker than sending them to Doggenes!!!!!
by Csense on 24 October 2009 - 13:10
Thank you Bazza,
I was getting worried that I was going senile
I knew I saw it somewhere lol
Quote from Videx.
"Far too many people lack the capacity to make a fair and rational judgement on all available and presentable facts"
David, please can we have the evidence so we can make our own minds up ??
I was getting worried that I was going senile
I knew I saw it somewhere lol
Quote from Videx.
"Far too many people lack the capacity to make a fair and rational judgement on all available and presentable facts"
David, please can we have the evidence so we can make our own minds up ??
by Trotters123 on 24 October 2009 - 13:10
I just spoke to my Vet about JRD and being able to get a result through blood work.
His reply was, to say the least startling considering all the push to send your tests to Canada and this woman.......
According to MY Vet one can test for JRD through a blood sample, although uncommon it can be done.
This to me, if accurate is a much more sterile and identifiable way of doing it. Although the results are still private it is a start on the right road. However my Vet did say that it is very uncommon within GSDs (he is a GSD man) and he wondered why I was requesting all this information. In his 40 years as a Vet he has only every done this test on two dogs and none were GSDs. Time change I realise this and breeds DO develop syndroms and disorders but he was unaware of the 'big scare' which is being highlighted by certain people.
Food for thought.
His reply was, to say the least startling considering all the push to send your tests to Canada and this woman.......
According to MY Vet one can test for JRD through a blood sample, although uncommon it can be done.
This to me, if accurate is a much more sterile and identifiable way of doing it. Although the results are still private it is a start on the right road. However my Vet did say that it is very uncommon within GSDs (he is a GSD man) and he wondered why I was requesting all this information. In his 40 years as a Vet he has only every done this test on two dogs and none were GSDs. Time change I realise this and breeds DO develop syndroms and disorders but he was unaware of the 'big scare' which is being highlighted by certain people.
Food for thought.
by bazza on 24 October 2009 - 13:10
Interesting post Trotters, maybe we should all speak to our own vets and see if there have been any cases of JRD found in there patients.
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