Dwarfs in Ireland - Page 4

Hi Mrs Worley

I think you have just proved Jona right . Breed from a dog with a high hip score & then try to justify it . I,m definitely am finished with this site . Breeders like you the GSD doesnt need

Ps

no need to apoligise when I,m proven rite about dog producing dwarfs

Nofear, I didn't say use dogs with high hips and then try to justify it, you should have read what I said more closely, i said I would use the dog if I knew the rest of his lines and those of the prospective mother, big difference.... I have been striving for years now to improve on every mating I do,  I have used dogs here and in Germany and The Netherlands, always with the intention of having something for myself to continue my lines with, what do I want with animals with problems, I don't and neither does anyone with the breed at heart, it's not like building cars, sometimes things rear their ugly heads and there is nothing that could have been done to prevent it other than not breeding at all, believe me it is absolutley soul destroying when things go wrong, all the hope and expectation that has been put into a prospective litter just disappears down the drain, not funny....... 

The DNA test for a type of pituitary dwarfism does NOT test for every reason for dwarfism. I know from personal experience, having sent samples to the researcher who developed this test. I had three dwarfs in a litter of 8. The three were euthanized at 12 weeks of age due to severe health problems and their samples sent. They tested negative for the specific type of dwarfism, but there was no doubt that the three were dwarfs. To assume that getting the DNA test mentioned will clear up the problem is naive. 

Mrs Worley

Sory but think u need to reply straight ansewr to straght question I asked if you wud use this dog with a hip score of 27 . You repled yes if you knew his family back ground . You DO KNOW the dogs family background so I,m asking you again wud you use on any of ur females this dog ?

I agree with you Penny BUT what breeders say and what they actually do is a different matter in some cases.   Hodie. Sorry to hear of your misfortune with your puppies it must have been awful for you, can you let us know which dwarfism test you used ?. I contacted the Utrecht university in the Netherlands and they assured me that their test for pituitary dwarfism gave a definite result for carrier or non carrier status.      Simon.

Hi Mo

I wasn't implying that producing dwarfs is no big deal, but there is apparently a DNA test for the pituitary dwarfism, carried by a simple autosomal recessive gene, that I thought we were 'discussing' on this thread.

I had 3 dwarfs out of a litter of 7 back in the 80's, in one of my early litters. Dwarfism was obviously around then, as 2 other very well known breeders looked at them for me and both recognised they were dwarfs, having had the defect themselves.
The pups were obviously not quite right from around 3 weeks old and I had to have them put to sleep at 8 weeks.  Distressing at the time yes, but if I had the choice of having 3 dwarfs or having 3 apparently healthy pups, who then go on to develop severe health issues such as AF or Epilepsy, I would rather have to go through the heartache myself and not pass on a problem to a pet owner. That is what I meant when I said there are worse defects to have.
I haven't had any dwarfs myself since then and nor would I wish to, but in an ideal world, I wouldn't wish to produce any other defect either! Unfortunately, life's a bitch and it doesn't happen quite like this. I am quite convinced that every dog or bitch will carry some defective gene, be it aesthetic defects such as soft ears or overshot mouths to more serious problems as pituitary dwarfism, EPI, AF and many more.
I spoke to Malcolm Willis at the time, a plain speaking man with immense knowledge, for whom I have great respect and he told me in no uncertain terms that dwarfism should be identified in the first few weeks of life and, as a breeder, it was my responsibility to deal with it. He advised not to repeat the mating, (which I had no intention of doing anyway), but there was no need to eliminate carriers from breeding. As it happens, I didn't breed from the bitch again, but I would use a sire who carries the gene, if he was right for my bitch in all other respects, but I would take the precaution of DNA testing first.

If anyone wishes to know the breeding of the litter back in the 80's, then PM me, but I will not respond to anonymous requests. I also have photos, which I could probably dig out and scan, of the three pups at 7 weeks for anyone who is genuinely interested.

Regards, Katrina