Dear Jemima,

I thank you for the honesty you have shown this time by expressing your conflict of interest with our breed in your above post. This type of balanced view I can live with and in my opinion it is far removed from the, one sided view personality, you displayed in your PDE production. Though why you think my reasoning for not wanting you involved was wrong I fail to understand, the conflict of interest which, you have at least admitted to this time, is exactly what I meant, for in my opinion your unbalanced production concerning our breed last time is the very reason for the situation the committee;s and members of our Progressive Breed Clubs currently find themselves in today regarding the KC Undertaking.

The help we require needs to come without any excess baggage or hidden agenda's, it is vital that any help offered to us comes without strings, or a risk of being sidetracked by other issues that may cloud the effect of any help we accept and from your post above you know exactly what I am saying Jemima and again I sincerley thank you for that. Its a shame we  have so far found ourselves on opposing teams, in a different world I think perhaps we could have been fiercesome allies, but alas. At least I hope we have found some form of respect for each other at last, at least we hold similar views of the KC which I suspect  we always did, so there was always some common ground we could share. However, as I said previously I have this 'once bitten twice shy' self preservation type of nature and although I would love to trust you, I wouldnt be able to rest for wondering if once behind that camera lence your persona focus would once again change from the bigger picture to that of Tunnel vision. 

So glad we have had this exchange, it is encourageing to read what you said and part of me wants to join Member John and Penny Mo in asking for your help to expose this outrageous abuse of a dominant position the KC are imposing on our Breed clubs, indeed many more may agree with John and Mo. At the end of the day Jemima it really isnt up to me, I am but one voice amoung many and the many may ask for your help. As for me, as much as I have enjoyed this exchange with you and would like to think someday you will do something for us in a balanced way, on your own so to speak, but speaking for myself at this very moment in time I am sad to admit it but I would still have to say, Thanks Jemima, but no thanks!

Yours sincerley
Sue Belfield 

Here's my take on it, Penny. And you'll have to excuse my bluntness.

The KC is being forced to take a stand on this because - as they themselves say - any lay person can see the problem. This is the first time in history, of course, that the KC has ever given any credence to what lay people think - normally it's "well what do you know... you've never bred a dog in your life" - but nevertheless (and whether you like it or not) the conformation problems are there for everyone outside of the breed to see - truly, wincingly, obvious. Obviously, many here think they and I are wrong, but that's how the GSD is seen by those outside of the breed - and the pressure is on the KC to do something about it. After all, how can they convince everyone they're fit for purpose otherwise?  And if they can't convince everyone, how on earth are they going to keep their grip on all things dog? This has always been their stated aim.

Next week there's a stakeholder meeting (KC, Dogs Trust, BVA, RSPCA etc) at which a very key issue will be discussed. Bateson has recommended the setting up of an independent Advisory Council. The KC responded with "oh, no need to do that... We'll expand the old Dog Health + Welfare Strategy Group into the new Dog Health Group, taken on new experts and, hey, with an independent chair, let US host it... just think of all the money you'll save!"

I can't imagine for a moment that the other stakeholders will fall for this - but of course the KC will talk strongly about how they're the only ones who truly understand the dog world. I imagine they'll use their tough stance on the GSDs as evidence of how very worthy they are... how they've seen the light... how robustly they are embracing reform.

Why the GSDs? Because the problems are so visible - and probably also because of the historical bad blood between the breed and the KC. No matter than 52 per cent of my flatcoats develop cancer by the age of 7/8. No matter that the Cesky Terrier has a typical COI in the 80s (really - they're virtual clones). No matter that Tollers have an effective population size of just 18 (in other words, the entire population is the equivalent of just 18 genetically distinct dogs). No matter than they continue to register puppies by dogs with criminally-high hip scores.  The public can't SEE these problems trotting round a ring and the KC and showing has always been much more about what you can see - not the invisible deep-down health of dogs.

The KC has nothing to lose on this. Either you guys toe the line and they win. Or you leave the KC and they win - because they can then throw their hands up to the stakeholders and say: "See, we told you what would happen if we got tough..." and use it as an excuse to resist further reform.

I have to say that I don't know what the answer is. But if I were you guys, I'd demand some independent arbitration. And I'd also suggest a symposium on the future of the GSD which includes hands-on workshops, breed experts and scientists capable of analysing functional gait and anatomy.  I can't pretend that my hope wouldn't be that this would prove beyond reasonable doubt that the conformation favoured by the showring is dysfunctional. But if you're convinced otherwise, and are given the opportunity to present the case, then it shouldn't be something you should fear.

Jemima

Jemima , I was with you all the way with your above post, yes even gritted my teeth tightly (but kept my mouth closed) on the first two sentances in your opening paragraph because overall I thought, Yes, I was right, we do have some common ground. THEN you went and spoiled it all, at the very last hurdle, in fact it was almost as if you were saying I will finish as I started because in the very last two sentances of the last paragraph you said this;- "I can't pretend that my hope wouldn't be that this would prove beyond reasonable doubt that the conformation favoured by the showring is dysfunctional. But I guess if you're convinced otherwise, and are given the opportunity to present the case, that it shouldn't be something you should fear." 

I don't understand you Jemima? Why would anyone who profess to love animals want to be proved right about something like this? When it came to an animals health and welfare most reasonable people would say, I hope I am proved wrong, but not you, you want to be proved right !! Once again I thank you Jemima for your honesty and your bluntness and in the way you view the world I suppose most of all I should be saying, "Thankyou for proving me right about you", but then again I'm not called Jemima as I actually I would have been much happier had I being able to say "Thank you for proving me wrong !!" Alas it was not to be.

Regards
Sue b

  

FOR ONCE I AM 100% BEHIND SUE B – THIS WOMAN IS MORE OF A DANGER THAN A HELP TO THE GSD BREED. HER VERY LAST STATEMENT SAYS IT ALL – THIS IS THE CRUCIAL STATEMENT IN HER POST AND I QUOTE:-

“But if you're convinced otherwise, and are given the opportunity to present the case, then it shouldn't be something you should fear”.

The GSD Partnership HAVE PRESENTED THEIR CASE and the KC DID NOT LISTEN TO THEM AND STABBED THEM IN THE BACK – therefore there is no need to be given any further opportunity to present the case.

The GSD Fraternity in this country WANT HEALTH TESTS MADE MANDATORY ACROSS THE BOARD and the KC DO NOT WANT TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE BREED.

The GSD Fraternity want the KC to STOP REGISTERING DOGS WITH PROVEN HEALTH PROBLEMS – BUT THEY WILL NOT – THE BOTTOMLINE IS IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY £££££££££ - THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT.

The GSD Fraternity were the ones who BROUGHT ABOUT THESE HEALTH TESTS – NOT THE KC – WHAT A BLIND ORGANISATION THEY ARE – surely common sense would say they would want the best for dogs as they state they “ARE THE WORLD OF DOGS” – my God open your eyes and see the light – they are hinderance to the Dog World not a help.

THE KC WILL CONTINUE TO REGISTER SICK DOGS AND TAKE PUBLIC MONEY UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT OR POWERS THAT BE STEP IN AND STOP THEM.
CONTINUED

However, personally I for one am not prepared to sit around and wait for this to happen.

There are better people out there to forward the CAUSE and Jemima Harrison is NOT ONE OF THEM – WE DO NOT NEED THIS WOMAN’S HELP.

continued below

However, personally I for one am not prepared to sit around and wait for this to happen.

There are better people out there to forward the CAUSE and Jemima Harrison is NOT ONE OF THEM – WE DO NOT NEED THIS WOMAN’S HELP.

THINGS CHANGE AS TIME PASSES
 

EXAMPLES –

THE WORLD OF DARTS WANTED A SPLIT AND THEY WERE TOLD IT WOULD NOT HAPPEN

YES IT DID HAPPEN
 

PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL WANTED CHANGE AND THEY WERE TOLD IT WOULD NOT HAPPEN

YES IT DID HAPPEN
 

SO WHY NOT THE WORLD OF DOGS – THE KC IS A MONOPOLY AND IT IS LEGALLY WRONG IN THIS COUNTRY.

THE GSD FRATERNITY IS PAST THE POINT OF BEING CONVINCED THAT CHANGE WILL HAPPEN VIA THE KC SO FURTHER NEGOTIATION AND TALK IS NOW A POINTLESS EXERCISE.

I SINCERELY HOPE THESE TERMS ARE LAYMAN ENOUGH????

Aileen
 

Jemima,
Have you ever been to a dog show? Have you ever seen dogs bred by professionals?? I dont mean scumbag puppy farmers who are in it for the money, but people like the majority of us, are in gsds because we love the animals.
For your programme you would of had to research and find shocking breeders and shocking animals, otherwise the programme would not of got aired.   
So instead of taring us all with the same brush, do some real research about real breeders.
Stuart Carrier

See. All that happens is that you all start SHOUTING...

Sue, your logic is flawed. I want what is best for the dogs the same as you. The suggestion of a symposium is because you are at stalemate. You think the GSDs are functionally fine and the rest of the non-GSD world does not.  The reason I 'hope' a scientific symposium will prove it is because I think your dogs are suffering and that they need to change - for the dogs' sake. However, if the scientific evidence is there that they are functionally-fine that the shape so many of us believe is handicapping the dog does not, in fact, do any harm - then I hope I would be the first to admit I was wrong.

This should not, at the end of the day, be a matter of opinion - yours or mine. It should be a matter of fact. We can't both be right - either the shape handicaps the dog or it does not. It should not be that hard to establish the truth.

Yes, Sylcarr, I've been to lots of dog shows. Indeed, I've probably seen more GSDs in the show-ring than out of it. The GSDs we showed in PDE (video link near the top of this thread) were from Manchester Champ Dog Show and Crufts.  One of the worst of them won Manchester.

I'm not pitching to help you. I'm telling you why it's hard for me to help you. But, as I said, I'll continue to call it when I think the KC is doing the wrong thing.

Jemima

JEMIMA

WE ARE NOT SHOUTING - ONLY POINTING OUT THE FACTS.

You may have attended many Dog Shows including GSD Breed Shows as a spectator, BUT have you actually spoken to any of the Breeders at these Shows - have your ever bothered to do an across the board census of GSD Breeders in this country, have you ever own a GSD, have your ever bred a GSD - do you ask the spectators their opinions at these Shows - I bet the answer is NO.  THE PROGRAMME WAS ONE SIDED - no wonder the public are confused - it is people like you and your cronies who want to make a fast buck or 2 at the expense of suffering animals that has added to the confusion.

Once you have visited an appropriate number of GSD Kennels and owners and seen all sides of the story then come back on here and state your case - I have absolutely no doubt what you will find - a MINORITY OF BAD ONES AND A MAJORITY OF GOOD ONES - however you find all of that in EVERY BREED OF DOGS.

It is quite clear the GSD is being singled out by the KC to be made an example of and as I said before - "IF A NUMERICALLY LARGE BREED SUCCUMBS TO THEIR DICTATORSHIP THEY HAVE IT IN THE BAG".

We are not the only Country in the world that has PUPPY FARMS AND BACKSTREET BREEDERS and ALSO UNSCRUPULOUS REGISTERED BREEDERS, it has been proved over and over again.

The only people who can help stop the registering of SICK DOGS  in the UK is now the Government and it is time they stepped up to the plate and made it happen. 

Stricter licensing of Kennels, licensing of individual dogs (like it used to be) would not be a bad thing to bring back onto the Agenda and when they do find a Puppy Farm make sure that once and for all they are put out of business.  Soft sentences and apathy on the part of the Courts is as much to blame as in their eyes animals are not as important as humans.

Aileen