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by Jenni78 on 29 September 2010 - 18:09
I still can't get an answer. Darn it.
by ziegenfarm on 29 September 2010 - 18:09
i have to agree, jenn. i can think of a few well respected, big name kennels right here in the states that are, in reality, nothing more than a big puppy mill that charges ridiculous amouts of money. so sad. :(
pjp
pjp
by Jenni78 on 29 September 2010 - 19:09
My favorite is the puppy auctions for the "pick of the litter". It would be funny, if it weren't so freaking sad.
by steve1 on 29 September 2010 - 20:09
Some on here say German Shepherds should only be bred from to better the breeding, That will fall on deaf ears to many on this website
Steve1
Steve1
by Tantra on 29 September 2010 - 22:09
I always wonder when people talk about bettering the breed. The breed was probable at its best during the 1970 80's. Has the American Showline bettered the breed by any change? Its an honest question.
Also there is a thread i read earlier about titles being bought. So really where is the qaurantee that the titles of the parents is really worth anything.
I do some volunteer work at our shelter on weekends when ever i can washing cleaning and walking the dogs. There are plenty of dogs there for people and suprisingly enough we have no german shepherds. Plenty of Huskey's
I dont agree with breeding dogs for fun. Most of the time breeders breed dogs for specific reasons because there is a market for a specific type/look of dog.
I had a german shepherd female bought from a small time breeder one of two litters every 2 to 3 years. What a awesome dog she was. She passed away about 12 years ago i then bought 2 Rottweilers briliant dogs also from a breeder who only breed his dogs every 2 to 3 years. I am in the market for a GSD again now and i will definately buy from a small time breeder again who does his breeding not based on market trends and opinions but what he believes in.
I rambled so much i dont even know if i made a point.
What is bettering the breed because we have such a big difference in temperment, looks, movement in dogs. Gait has become so important that the other important traits are almost a by the by.
Its my opinion. I will probable get slated but i dont know if the breed has been bettered at all.
Also there is a thread i read earlier about titles being bought. So really where is the qaurantee that the titles of the parents is really worth anything.
I do some volunteer work at our shelter on weekends when ever i can washing cleaning and walking the dogs. There are plenty of dogs there for people and suprisingly enough we have no german shepherds. Plenty of Huskey's
I dont agree with breeding dogs for fun. Most of the time breeders breed dogs for specific reasons because there is a market for a specific type/look of dog.
I had a german shepherd female bought from a small time breeder one of two litters every 2 to 3 years. What a awesome dog she was. She passed away about 12 years ago i then bought 2 Rottweilers briliant dogs also from a breeder who only breed his dogs every 2 to 3 years. I am in the market for a GSD again now and i will definately buy from a small time breeder again who does his breeding not based on market trends and opinions but what he believes in.
I rambled so much i dont even know if i made a point.
What is bettering the breed because we have such a big difference in temperment, looks, movement in dogs. Gait has become so important that the other important traits are almost a by the by.
Its my opinion. I will probable get slated but i dont know if the breed has been bettered at all.
by Gemini on 29 September 2010 - 22:09
I dont think you rambled, but made some good points. And that is a good honest question. I would like to know is the breed better due to the dogs bred for sport, work or show?
by dogud shepherd on 29 September 2010 - 23:09
bettering the breed?how can it be bettered?its the best breed in the world!!!sure,our dogs are like the rest of our possesions,we like to think they're better than everyone else's,but in reality they're the same,its just how we perceive them.ask anyone else ...they're still german shepherds or horror ALSATIANS.
i find the thinking that only someone who knows the breed inside out,can breed a "Good"dog a bit hard to swallow,i also find the thinking that a dog is going to be good,based on its pedigree,a little precious!if this one dog is good,what about its littermates?have they not the same genetic make up?and c'mon for real,how much of an impression does a particular dog make on its progeny(all of them!NOT just yours!)after 7 or 8 generations?
and i'd much rather buy a dog from a byb that cared and had good healthy stock,than a kennel breeder with a heap of bitches in a nice tidy row of cages.
but then i probably shouldn't be buying one seen as i'm not a policeman,search and rescue,or any of the other qualifying "working professions"...and there was me thinking it was ok to have a dog that could just be a dog,enjoy life and be a friend.guess i better get me a lab?
i find the thinking that only someone who knows the breed inside out,can breed a "Good"dog a bit hard to swallow,i also find the thinking that a dog is going to be good,based on its pedigree,a little precious!if this one dog is good,what about its littermates?have they not the same genetic make up?and c'mon for real,how much of an impression does a particular dog make on its progeny(all of them!NOT just yours!)after 7 or 8 generations?
and i'd much rather buy a dog from a byb that cared and had good healthy stock,than a kennel breeder with a heap of bitches in a nice tidy row of cages.
but then i probably shouldn't be buying one seen as i'm not a policeman,search and rescue,or any of the other qualifying "working professions"...and there was me thinking it was ok to have a dog that could just be a dog,enjoy life and be a friend.guess i better get me a lab?
by Gemini on 29 September 2010 - 23:09
When people discuss bettering the breed they dont mean in comparission to other breeds but making the breed as a whole better. Even in one litter one pup may have desired traits while the other may not. The other may have genetic things not wanted in progeny so you would breed the dog with the desired traits and the other would not be bred. Hopefully they are both found loving homes cause you are right they are dogs to be enjoyed. The dog is not being bred due to pedigree but the pedigree is an expectation. But a dog from the top pedigree that has week ears and is scared of his own shadow has a good chance of breeding dogs like himself. I have three cousins that are brothers and all got college scholarships to play football at top schools and we are 1st cousins. We have the same pedigree but I was lucky to make my high school team. lol
by Bhaugh on 30 September 2010 - 01:09
Yippee! From a rescuer inundated with dogs that are mediocre at best with no home and no testing done. Pet shepherds are a dime a dozen. Its sad to say but true. The shelter here is swamped with them. Since you didn't mention if your dogs had any testing , I hope you at least take the time to do this. You haven't had any issues that you know of YET but its only a matter of time. I don't know of one breeder who has never had an issue. What is your return policy? Will you take dogs back forever? What kind of advise do you give buyers? Do you support your buyer for the life of the dog? OH YEAH thats a breeder. I wouldn't be proud to call myself a byb. I find those on CL everyday.
by starrchar on 30 September 2010 - 02:09
My definition of a BYB is someone who produces puppies for no other reason than to produce puppies. They know little about the breed or bloodlines. They rarely do health checks. They are not involved in any type of sport or work with their dogs, whether it's SAR, Schutzhund, police work, herding, service dog work, etc. They are in it for the money or ego or both. Yes, there are big kennels doing the same and I call them puppy mills.
On the other hand, what is a good responsible breeder (IMO)? They have a tremendous amount of knowledge about the breed and a lot of hands on experience. They have specific goals and standards. They have exceptional dogs, do health checks on them, do temperament testing, have them breed surveyed and do some type of sport or work (successfully) with their dog(s). They also selectively breed and try to breed their bitches to the best sire available, one that will compliment the bitch in every way possible. They offer a guarantee on the pups and hold true to it. The pet quality pups (or maybe all the pups) they produce are sold with limited registration...to avoid allowing someone to become a BYB. If in the future if the pup turns out to be breed worthy then full registration may be issued. They may only breed for one litter every year or two or they may have a large number of dogs and have multiple litters. They carefully screen the potential owners of their puppies and strive to match up the puppies with the proper owner. They are willing to take back one of their pups if the owner can no longer keep it. They view their dogs and pups as living beings and not property just to breed and sell just to get the money. They take excellent care of their dogs and give them proper companionship, veterinary care, exercise and food.
As far as titles go, they are important, but they are not everything and there are exceptions. There are plenty of excellent police service dogs, assistance service dogs, herding dogs, military dogs, cadaver dogs, bomb detection dogs and drug detection dogs out there that aren’t titled. Many are certified in their area of “expertise”, but you won’t see any SCHIII on their pedigree!
As far as bettering the breed, yes, that is subjective...to a point. I know we will not be able to agree what direction the GSD breed needs to go in because for one thing there are three general categories (AM SL, German SL and WL) and additional sub-categories and they simply do not agree on much of anything. I think that the typical BYB doesn’t even begin to think about what bettering the breed may look like though. I used to breed horses . I had been involved in horses for over 25 years before I started breeding. My goal when I started breeding was to always try to produce a foal that was better than the parents, better conformation, movement and performance, hence "to better the breed". I almost always selected an outside stud. The stud had to have an excellent pedigree and be proven, both as a producer and a performer in the show ring. He had to be healthy and sound, but that goes without saying. He had to compliment the mare very well. Even with careful selection, I did not always get what I hoped for, but no one could call me a backyard breeder because I truly did everything humanly possible to produce excellent quality horses. I no longer breed horses and have since realized I’m not cut out for breeding animals of any kind. I get too attached and want to keep them all and no home is good enough.
Tantra, There may not have been any GSDs in the shelter you were at, but there are thousands out there that need homes. Just look on petfinder.com.
On the other hand, what is a good responsible breeder (IMO)? They have a tremendous amount of knowledge about the breed and a lot of hands on experience. They have specific goals and standards. They have exceptional dogs, do health checks on them, do temperament testing, have them breed surveyed and do some type of sport or work (successfully) with their dog(s). They also selectively breed and try to breed their bitches to the best sire available, one that will compliment the bitch in every way possible. They offer a guarantee on the pups and hold true to it. The pet quality pups (or maybe all the pups) they produce are sold with limited registration...to avoid allowing someone to become a BYB. If in the future if the pup turns out to be breed worthy then full registration may be issued. They may only breed for one litter every year or two or they may have a large number of dogs and have multiple litters. They carefully screen the potential owners of their puppies and strive to match up the puppies with the proper owner. They are willing to take back one of their pups if the owner can no longer keep it. They view their dogs and pups as living beings and not property just to breed and sell just to get the money. They take excellent care of their dogs and give them proper companionship, veterinary care, exercise and food.
As far as titles go, they are important, but they are not everything and there are exceptions. There are plenty of excellent police service dogs, assistance service dogs, herding dogs, military dogs, cadaver dogs, bomb detection dogs and drug detection dogs out there that aren’t titled. Many are certified in their area of “expertise”, but you won’t see any SCHIII on their pedigree!
As far as bettering the breed, yes, that is subjective...to a point. I know we will not be able to agree what direction the GSD breed needs to go in because for one thing there are three general categories (AM SL, German SL and WL) and additional sub-categories and they simply do not agree on much of anything. I think that the typical BYB doesn’t even begin to think about what bettering the breed may look like though. I used to breed horses . I had been involved in horses for over 25 years before I started breeding. My goal when I started breeding was to always try to produce a foal that was better than the parents, better conformation, movement and performance, hence "to better the breed". I almost always selected an outside stud. The stud had to have an excellent pedigree and be proven, both as a producer and a performer in the show ring. He had to be healthy and sound, but that goes without saying. He had to compliment the mare very well. Even with careful selection, I did not always get what I hoped for, but no one could call me a backyard breeder because I truly did everything humanly possible to produce excellent quality horses. I no longer breed horses and have since realized I’m not cut out for breeding animals of any kind. I get too attached and want to keep them all and no home is good enough.
Tantra, There may not have been any GSDs in the shelter you were at, but there are thousands out there that need homes. Just look on petfinder.com.
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