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by Abby Normal on 06 December 2010 - 07:12
Wahrheit
The actual page on the site is recently put up, the articles are quite old. The test for Pituitary Dwarfism has been around a little while now, which is why it is disappointing to see so few results registered.
Yes, it is for PD only, hence the title of the thread, but this test does now provide the opportunity to eliminate this disease from the breed, but only, as Shepherdguy says, if all breeding stock is tested, and more importantly, the tests are recorded whether they are clear or carrier.
Kudos to those who have tested and listed their results. They are breeders who actually do care about the breed and it's health. Such a shame there are so few of them.
The actual page on the site is recently put up, the articles are quite old. The test for Pituitary Dwarfism has been around a little while now, which is why it is disappointing to see so few results registered.
Yes, it is for PD only, hence the title of the thread, but this test does now provide the opportunity to eliminate this disease from the breed, but only, as Shepherdguy says, if all breeding stock is tested, and more importantly, the tests are recorded whether they are clear or carrier.
Kudos to those who have tested and listed their results. They are breeders who actually do care about the breed and it's health. Such a shame there are so few of them.
by Shepherdguy on 06 December 2010 - 12:12
Abby Normal
It's very strange there hasn't been much response to this thread, Or Not!! I think there are a lot of very worried breeders out there and rightly so
It's very strange there hasn't been much response to this thread, Or Not!! I think there are a lot of very worried breeders out there and rightly so
by Alyson R on 06 December 2010 - 15:12
The cost for this test is high - 100 Euros + VAT + your own vet's charges for taking the blood. This is a major factor in why so few dogs have the test done.
by ChrissiDrake on 06 December 2010 - 17:12
Alyson as you know the test is only done once in a dogs lifetime, the cost of approx £150 or so is hardly a good enough reason not to test is it, it's a drop in the sea especially when one stud fee alone is double or treble that amount and the sale of one puppy the same !. More than you think have been tested , the carrier results are kept quiet by more than a few breeders as with any confidential test , the GSD can't improve while results are allowed to be hidden.
by Jacki2263 on 06 December 2010 - 20:12
As the owner of a carrier male dog myself, (whose result is listed on the Jaquenetta site) I can only say that I am glad that I had my dog tested. Although I am only a small breeder, luckily my dog has only produced a small number of litters with no dwarfs that I am aware of, but knowing that a percentage of his progeny WILL be carriers, have immediately withdrawn him from stud to help prevent the problem escalating. I think the cost of the test is well worth it, it is a small price to pay........ in comparison. I would hate the thought of someone using my dog, to then contact me and inform me that they had dwarfs in their litter. I am aware that both parents have to carry the defective gene to produce a dwarf. A carrier female produces far less progeny than a carrier male and it is easier for breeders to control by endorsing their registrations until progeny are tested. Lets hope for the betterment of the breed that more breeders add their results to the results page, whatever the it may be.
by Abby Normal on 06 December 2010 - 21:12
Jacki2263
First off, I salute you. If ONLY others would have the courage to follow suit, and actually really take steps to eradicate this disease.
I am honestly shocked that anyone would cite the cost of the test as being the reason for not testing. It is a drop in the ocean. If you bred border collies you would have an annual eye test for every dog, a plethora of other tests (which involve tests being sent overseas too), and every pup in every litter hearing and eye tested. That is a real cost, but they do it!
Are GSD breeders so greed driven that they will not spend a mere £150 per breeding animal to better breed health? If that is the real reason, I hope I never hear another GSD breeder say that they care about the health of the breed, unless they can stand behind that statement as Jacki2263 can, having tested.
It will be interesting to see who remains conspicuous by their absence on this list.
BTW as an edit to an earlier post it is just 7 dogs registered as tested, and not 8 !
First off, I salute you. If ONLY others would have the courage to follow suit, and actually really take steps to eradicate this disease.
I am honestly shocked that anyone would cite the cost of the test as being the reason for not testing. It is a drop in the ocean. If you bred border collies you would have an annual eye test for every dog, a plethora of other tests (which involve tests being sent overseas too), and every pup in every litter hearing and eye tested. That is a real cost, but they do it!
Are GSD breeders so greed driven that they will not spend a mere £150 per breeding animal to better breed health? If that is the real reason, I hope I never hear another GSD breeder say that they care about the health of the breed, unless they can stand behind that statement as Jacki2263 can, having tested.
It will be interesting to see who remains conspicuous by their absence on this list.
BTW as an edit to an earlier post it is just 7 dogs registered as tested, and not 8 !
by Shepherdguy on 06 December 2010 - 23:12
To say that cost is a major factor has to be a pathetic excuse for any breeder to use.
For example lets say a quality Stud Dog fee of £500 the dog may be used 20 times (often more) in 1 year £ 10,000 possible use for this dog 6 years = £60,000
A quality bitch is used with an average litter of say 6 (often more) puppies are sold for £850 1 litter £5,100
bitch produces 3 litters in her life time = £15,300
I believe i've given a fair example above and yes we all know things can go wrong but having said that...
The cost of the test £150. This price is negligible when the health of the breed is at stake.
Where are all the major ball players, those big breeders, why no comments, why no testing????
For example lets say a quality Stud Dog fee of £500 the dog may be used 20 times (often more) in 1 year £ 10,000 possible use for this dog 6 years = £60,000
A quality bitch is used with an average litter of say 6 (often more) puppies are sold for £850 1 litter £5,100
bitch produces 3 litters in her life time = £15,300
I believe i've given a fair example above and yes we all know things can go wrong but having said that...
The cost of the test £150. This price is negligible when the health of the breed is at stake.
Where are all the major ball players, those big breeders, why no comments, why no testing????
by bazza on 07 December 2010 - 07:12
I will never understand breeders not using available health tests, AND making the results publicly available. I've read on here many excuses from cost to witch hunts etc. etc. THERE ARE NO EXCUSES.......test and record results is the ONLY way forward, that is if the breed's health is the most important issue as most claim!!!! I honestly shake my head in disbelief at those who ignore health tests.
by hutch on 07 December 2010 - 09:12
To add a little balance.....
Many of us are not big breeders and the cost of this test does seem a lot in comparison to other seemingly more complex tests - I am sure that Alyson was not putting it forward as an excuse (you will note that an Antilli dog is amongst the test results) - but I am also sure that cost is not the reason for not testing.
Firstly, I think that many people do not realise how widespread this problem is. We have been breeding for over 30 years and have never to our knowledge produced a dwarf - although many do die before they are born or in the first few days so who knows for sure? Since taking more notice of the problem I have been amazed at how common place dwarves are.
Secondly - fear. It's a hard pill to swallow if your top winning stud dog tests as a carrier - that's not just about money, we love our dogs and we are proud of our dogs!
Thirdly - this is a relatively new test and many are not aware of that - I know this for a fact when I have been speaking with fellow enthusiasts and they knew nothing of it.
I am sure that others will test their animals eventually - especially as awareness increases and people looking for stud dogs start asking for it - as I will be doing in future.
I urge the Breed Council to make the test part of the requirements of the Breed Survey - lead the way!
Many of us are not big breeders and the cost of this test does seem a lot in comparison to other seemingly more complex tests - I am sure that Alyson was not putting it forward as an excuse (you will note that an Antilli dog is amongst the test results) - but I am also sure that cost is not the reason for not testing.
Firstly, I think that many people do not realise how widespread this problem is. We have been breeding for over 30 years and have never to our knowledge produced a dwarf - although many do die before they are born or in the first few days so who knows for sure? Since taking more notice of the problem I have been amazed at how common place dwarves are.
Secondly - fear. It's a hard pill to swallow if your top winning stud dog tests as a carrier - that's not just about money, we love our dogs and we are proud of our dogs!
Thirdly - this is a relatively new test and many are not aware of that - I know this for a fact when I have been speaking with fellow enthusiasts and they knew nothing of it.
I am sure that others will test their animals eventually - especially as awareness increases and people looking for stud dogs start asking for it - as I will be doing in future.
I urge the Breed Council to make the test part of the requirements of the Breed Survey - lead the way!
by hutch on 07 December 2010 - 09:12
One other thought - this test can be done as soon as the pup has been identified by tattoo or micro-chip - so you can make this your first test and avoid the cost of the others if the result isn't what you were after.
Note that the test requests 4ml of blood if you go straight to Utrecht but Laboklin ask for 1ml, I questioned this and got the following reply from Dr Kooistra
Because the genetic test is a quite difficult test we like to have some extra blood in case there are problems with the test. It allows us to retest if we are not 100% sure about the results. In case of small dogs (or puppies) 1 ml of EDTA blood is in most cases also sufficient.
4ml is a lot (apparantly) from a puppy so you could go for 1 or 2 ml if you are doing an early test.
Shirley
Note that the test requests 4ml of blood if you go straight to Utrecht but Laboklin ask for 1ml, I questioned this and got the following reply from Dr Kooistra
Because the genetic test is a quite difficult test we like to have some extra blood in case there are problems with the test. It allows us to retest if we are not 100% sure about the results. In case of small dogs (or puppies) 1 ml of EDTA blood is in most cases also sufficient.
4ml is a lot (apparantly) from a puppy so you could go for 1 or 2 ml if you are doing an early test.
Shirley
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