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by Saartje on 21 December 2010 - 21:12
Hi, I run a shelter for pituitary dwarfs in Holland. On my website www.saartje.stoethoeve.nl you will find a lot of information about dwarfism and the test that is available now. (site is also in English)
worldwide about 20% of the GSD are carrier of the defective gene that couses dwarfism.
Dwarfs have a veriety of medical issues (90% dies in the first week, the other 10% has a life-expectation of 4-5 years), so if we can prevent them from beeing born, I think that is our duty.
If you have any questions, please contact me.
Tanja
worldwide about 20% of the GSD are carrier of the defective gene that couses dwarfism.
Dwarfs have a veriety of medical issues (90% dies in the first week, the other 10% has a life-expectation of 4-5 years), so if we can prevent them from beeing born, I think that is our duty.
If you have any questions, please contact me.
Tanja
by noddi on 21 December 2010 - 21:12
Bloody hell Katrina.pardon my french,i didnt realise they were all dwarfs.must admit the dwarfs i,ve seen have been older.i,ve seen one at an open show,which was i presume,out of english breeding,saw another aged about 5 yrs.mainly german breeding and one a short while ago of german breeding aged 6/8 months old.i,ve only seen dwarf pups in photos,I WOULD NOT HAVE SAID from the photo that all were dwarfs.i,m astounded,and a bit ashamed that i thought the other 2 were normal,tho i did think that one pup looked smaller than the other 2.Carole S.
by Penny on 21 December 2010 - 22:12
Same here Carole, and how interesting to hear from the lady in Holland, thank you - but Katrina`s post goes to prove that its not certain, and clear cut. I felt also that we were being shown 1 pd puppy !
David, when I talked of "private research" by that I meant that talking to people and hearing their experiences, sorry it wasnt made clearer - many more people than we had ever thought had bred them in their litters, some of whom had come to accept that it happens - I am well aware that Lyn is a mine of information, she is a mine of information of many GSD issues and I believe she is very pro-testing. Mo.
David, when I talked of "private research" by that I meant that talking to people and hearing their experiences, sorry it wasnt made clearer - many more people than we had ever thought had bred them in their litters, some of whom had come to accept that it happens - I am well aware that Lyn is a mine of information, she is a mine of information of many GSD issues and I believe she is very pro-testing. Mo.
by Abby Normal on 22 December 2010 - 11:12
Confusing....
Videx:
Be assured the PD DNA test will NEVER take off
very few breeding GSD will be tested, indeed minuscule numbers will be tested
_________________________________________________________________
Videx:
That is how many are already doing the PD test - privately, especially their females.
__________________________________________________________________
Videx:
Be assured the PD DNA test will NEVER take off
very few breeding GSD will be tested, indeed minuscule numbers will be tested
_________________________________________________________________
Videx:
That is how many are already doing the PD test - privately, especially their females.
__________________________________________________________________
by Videx on 22 December 2010 - 12:12
A-N an ignorant prat! -
Around 12,000 GSD puppies are registered annually with the Kennel Club, many thousands more are born each year and unregistered, or registered with other registration organisations, including, I am informed, some from well known kennels. KC registering only part or some of their litters.
It is clear to anyone with this knowledge and normal levels of intelligence, that most health screening tests for our breed and most other breeds is extremely low, for PD it is certainly minuscule.
Some may wish to understand the following:
Perhaps around 500 GSD actually engage in the GSD Show scene within the UK. Take 12,000 GSD KC registered annually, and a show career of say 4 to 5 years. This equates to 50,000 to 60,000 GSD could be eligible for KC Shows in any one year. Therefore less that one percent are actually ever shown.
Conclusion: never forget GSD Show dogs are numerically minuscule by any calculation with the GSD breed total numbers within the UK.
Around 99% of GSD, and therefore GSD owners, and therefore GSD breeders, have little or NO interest/involvement in GSD exhibiting. Now carefully consider our GSD health screening tests within this scenario.
Perhaps some of you may now understand the level of negativity of the Kennel Club towards Breed Clubs opinions, especially if any of their opinions threaten in any way their registrations. Far too many of you mentally occupy a very small place indeed. Even then, in your very small place, many of you remain "anonymous nobody's", and you so obviously lack any courage of or for your false and ignorant convictions.
Around 12,000 GSD puppies are registered annually with the Kennel Club, many thousands more are born each year and unregistered, or registered with other registration organisations, including, I am informed, some from well known kennels. KC registering only part or some of their litters.
It is clear to anyone with this knowledge and normal levels of intelligence, that most health screening tests for our breed and most other breeds is extremely low, for PD it is certainly minuscule.
Some may wish to understand the following:
Perhaps around 500 GSD actually engage in the GSD Show scene within the UK. Take 12,000 GSD KC registered annually, and a show career of say 4 to 5 years. This equates to 50,000 to 60,000 GSD could be eligible for KC Shows in any one year. Therefore less that one percent are actually ever shown.
Conclusion: never forget GSD Show dogs are numerically minuscule by any calculation with the GSD breed total numbers within the UK.
Around 99% of GSD, and therefore GSD owners, and therefore GSD breeders, have little or NO interest/involvement in GSD exhibiting. Now carefully consider our GSD health screening tests within this scenario.
Perhaps some of you may now understand the level of negativity of the Kennel Club towards Breed Clubs opinions, especially if any of their opinions threaten in any way their registrations. Far too many of you mentally occupy a very small place indeed. Even then, in your very small place, many of you remain "anonymous nobody's", and you so obviously lack any courage of or for your false and ignorant convictions.
by Abby Normal on 22 December 2010 - 13:12
You really should have been a politician. Writing so much and saying so little. Calling people names is not really all that helpful. If you want to be really taken seriously, why don't you explain exactly why you are against the test, as Mo asked on several occasions? Otherwise it's just propaganda.
I meant to ask, of the MANY that are testing privately, why do you make the distinction 'especially their females' ?
I meant to ask, of the MANY that are testing privately, why do you make the distinction 'especially their females' ?
by Videx on 22 December 2010 - 13:12
Why should I impart my knowledge to numerous ignoramus's and afford their limited intellect the opportunity to nit pick and take a word, a sentence or a phrase out of context and have my reasons lost in a morass of stupidity and ignorance? "You can take a horse to water etc" - most of the reasons have already expressed on this thread, and have been 'blindsided' by the ignorant.
Two interesting points: for those capable of understanding the bigger picture:
1) The Kennel Club, in my opinion, has shot itself in the foot with their new rules for January 2012, in respect of limiting 4 litters per breeding female, and no more litters following two C-sections on a breeding female.
Many breeders will wait longer before they register a litter, in order to decide whether to bother. Small litters, for example 1 to 3 puppies, will more frequently not be registered, and many breeders and breed clubs will seek alternative registration systems, with some organisations developing their own. Particularly when you consider the Kennel Club limit on litters is less that the 6 litters allowed by British Law, and far less that that allowed under the SV rules and overseas Kennel Club and Breed Club rules.
"remember the Kennel Club stating they could NOT insist on all parents of litters having acceptable hip scores before registering litters, because this would require legislation?"
2) The GSD League of Great Britain (the WUSV Member Club) should now actively pursue a dedicated GSD Breed Registration System for the UK, or alternatively progress the opportunities with the SV/WUSV for a GSD registration system with them. This is very feasible and possible and also holds numerous very exciting opportunities.
Two interesting points: for those capable of understanding the bigger picture:
1) The Kennel Club, in my opinion, has shot itself in the foot with their new rules for January 2012, in respect of limiting 4 litters per breeding female, and no more litters following two C-sections on a breeding female.
Many breeders will wait longer before they register a litter, in order to decide whether to bother. Small litters, for example 1 to 3 puppies, will more frequently not be registered, and many breeders and breed clubs will seek alternative registration systems, with some organisations developing their own. Particularly when you consider the Kennel Club limit on litters is less that the 6 litters allowed by British Law, and far less that that allowed under the SV rules and overseas Kennel Club and Breed Club rules.
"remember the Kennel Club stating they could NOT insist on all parents of litters having acceptable hip scores before registering litters, because this would require legislation?"
2) The GSD League of Great Britain (the WUSV Member Club) should now actively pursue a dedicated GSD Breed Registration System for the UK, or alternatively progress the opportunities with the SV/WUSV for a GSD registration system with them. This is very feasible and possible and also holds numerous very exciting opportunities.
by Abby Normal on 22 December 2010 - 14:12
You have not offered a single tangible reason for not testing, so it is simply propaganda. (BTW it was not only ‘ignoramuses’ as you brand some, asking that same question. It was other experienced breeders too).
On the other hand the Dutch VDH, led as they were at the time, by Peter Oirschott, do offer sound reasons for testing, with scientific backing. I guess anyone can do the math.
I noticed you turning this around to the KC. I think it is an enlightened approach by the KC to reduce the number of litters to 4. What breeders then do about registration and the number of litters they ‘actually’ produce, will no doubt will be determined by their own personal view and ethics relating to breeding. Many breeders will not always have the maximum number of litters from their bitch anyway.
Perhaps the KC decision on the number of litters will encourage people to test for PD, since if you have a case like Katrina’s, you can end up losing more puppies than you retain, which would count as one of the 4 litters. At least if you test for PD you aren’t going to lose dwarfs/fading/stillborn pups due to PD in a potential litter! I think it most unlikely that reputable breeders would want to register with some of the alternatives available, and their attendant reputations.
The GSD Leage, and the breed council should be obtaining qualified advice on health issues, and leading the way on all health issues as a priority, before they attempt anything else shouldn’t they?
On the other hand the Dutch VDH, led as they were at the time, by Peter Oirschott, do offer sound reasons for testing, with scientific backing. I guess anyone can do the math.
I noticed you turning this around to the KC. I think it is an enlightened approach by the KC to reduce the number of litters to 4. What breeders then do about registration and the number of litters they ‘actually’ produce, will no doubt will be determined by their own personal view and ethics relating to breeding. Many breeders will not always have the maximum number of litters from their bitch anyway.
Perhaps the KC decision on the number of litters will encourage people to test for PD, since if you have a case like Katrina’s, you can end up losing more puppies than you retain, which would count as one of the 4 litters. At least if you test for PD you aren’t going to lose dwarfs/fading/stillborn pups due to PD in a potential litter! I think it most unlikely that reputable breeders would want to register with some of the alternatives available, and their attendant reputations.
The GSD Leage, and the breed council should be obtaining qualified advice on health issues, and leading the way on all health issues as a priority, before they attempt anything else shouldn’t they?
by Abby Normal on 22 December 2010 - 14:12
Info
Quote from KC:
A club spokeswoman said that exceptions to the four-litter limit would only be allowed on advice from a vet and his opinion on the bitch in question. These could include cases where there had been only a one-puppy litter. The club had looked at its existing membership and concluded only a few still bred more than four litters from one bitch.
The club also called for other aspects of its breeders' code to be made mandatory by the government. This would include all breeders having to give their dogs required health tests for their breed and ensuring that potential buyers saw puppies with their mothers and in their home environment.
Quote from KC:
A club spokeswoman said that exceptions to the four-litter limit would only be allowed on advice from a vet and his opinion on the bitch in question. These could include cases where there had been only a one-puppy litter. The club had looked at its existing membership and concluded only a few still bred more than four litters from one bitch.
The club also called for other aspects of its breeders' code to be made mandatory by the government. This would include all breeders having to give their dogs required health tests for their breed and ensuring that potential buyers saw puppies with their mothers and in their home environment.
by Videx on 22 December 2010 - 15:12
go away - ignorant anonymous coward - your opinions are worthless.
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