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by DotA on 07 December 2010 - 18:12
well done to those who tested and displayed results on jacquenetta website and special recognition to those who have decency, integrity and honesty to list carriers. Why? because they are honest about dogs and that is being noticed. Any decent breeder should have foresight to consider overall gene pool and future of gene pool in any mating they do. It has to be about future health of breed collectively and those folk are showing, NOT saying, showing that they recognise that. Test is available, no excuse for ALL not doing it now. jacki2263, if I was looking for another dog, you would be top of list. You are someone that truly has betterment of breed at heart, and not just empty words.
by Shepherdguy on 07 December 2010 - 22:12
I also think DotA, that Hutch (Shirley), also truly has the betterment of the breed at heart no empty words from you Hutch a very good post with some excellent information regarding the test.
I agree whole heartedly the Breed Council should get on board and lead the way
I agree whole heartedly the Breed Council should get on board and lead the way
by Abby Normal on 07 December 2010 - 22:12
Shirley
Fear – I understand that completely. “It must be a bitter pill to swallow if your top winning stud dog tests as a carrier - that's not just about money, we love our dogs and we are proud of our dogs!” However – even if that top winning stud turns out to be a carrier it won’t cause his owner to love him less, or be less proud of him. If they want to make him a champion they still can as things stand. So ultimately, the only loss will be having to withdraw him from stud. It will be a harder pill for the breed to swallow, if, as seems to be happening here – that when these genetic tests do finally become available, we do not make use of them. If we are lucky enough to develop a genetic test for epilepsy, I just don't want us to be having this same conversation.
I agree with you 100% that the Breed Council should lead the way, and this test, and any others developed that will improve breed heath, should be part of the breed survey - in other words, mandatory. As you point out, future potential breeding stock can be screened at puppy stage. So far I am very disappointed with the League/Breed council on health issues generally.
The reason I keep bumping this thread, is so that IF people are unaware of it, they have the chance to learn about it. I will keep bumping it so that ignorance cannot be the cause of lack of testing. Lets hope that people like yourself and those others who have tested, do ask for clear dogs for their breeding programmes, and that this health scheme gains some momentum.
We have so many health problems within the breed for which we cannot yet test, I find it utterly demoralising that some breeders just don’t care enough to test for those that we now can.
Again, I agree with the previous posters, you show your dedication to the breed by your actions, and your ethics.
Fear – I understand that completely. “It must be a bitter pill to swallow if your top winning stud dog tests as a carrier - that's not just about money, we love our dogs and we are proud of our dogs!” However – even if that top winning stud turns out to be a carrier it won’t cause his owner to love him less, or be less proud of him. If they want to make him a champion they still can as things stand. So ultimately, the only loss will be having to withdraw him from stud. It will be a harder pill for the breed to swallow, if, as seems to be happening here – that when these genetic tests do finally become available, we do not make use of them. If we are lucky enough to develop a genetic test for epilepsy, I just don't want us to be having this same conversation.
I agree with you 100% that the Breed Council should lead the way, and this test, and any others developed that will improve breed heath, should be part of the breed survey - in other words, mandatory. As you point out, future potential breeding stock can be screened at puppy stage. So far I am very disappointed with the League/Breed council on health issues generally.
The reason I keep bumping this thread, is so that IF people are unaware of it, they have the chance to learn about it. I will keep bumping it so that ignorance cannot be the cause of lack of testing. Lets hope that people like yourself and those others who have tested, do ask for clear dogs for their breeding programmes, and that this health scheme gains some momentum.
We have so many health problems within the breed for which we cannot yet test, I find it utterly demoralising that some breeders just don’t care enough to test for those that we now can.
Again, I agree with the previous posters, you show your dedication to the breed by your actions, and your ethics.
by Jacki2263 on 07 December 2010 - 23:12
Shepherdguy, you beat me to it, I also salute Hutch for her honesty, integrity and common sense attitude towards what needs to be done, and agree that the Breed Council should put these tests foward as being mandatory.
Breeders may be interested to know that you can send the sample direct to Utrecht rather than through the agents Laboklin in the UK, which may save a bit of money ..........if that is important, and they send you the invoice after the test, so you are not having to pay up front, giving a window of opportunity to put the funds together to pay for it. Furthermore, Accdata is compiling a database of dogs tested and you can contact them at http://www.accdata.co.uk/dwarfism/ This is an interesting website with plenty of information and you can download the forms for Urecht University direct from this site. I have submitted the results of my dogs test to them and have given permission for the information to be used as required. I have also sent the results to Chris Hazell.
I can understand breeders fears..... I have felt that fear .... waiting for the results, but my greatest fear would be knowing that I could be bringing a puppy into the world with a defect that could have been prevented and whose life would most probably be short or requiring lifelong medical treatment if I didn't have the test done. It is bad enough that defects can occur where at present, no medical tests are available, but surely where a test IS available, we should use them and try and get our fantastic breed on the right tracks.
We have taken enough flak recently in the press and on TV, we need to stand up and be counted and show that WE CARE about our breed.
The ball is in our court!!!!
Breeders may be interested to know that you can send the sample direct to Utrecht rather than through the agents Laboklin in the UK, which may save a bit of money ..........if that is important, and they send you the invoice after the test, so you are not having to pay up front, giving a window of opportunity to put the funds together to pay for it. Furthermore, Accdata is compiling a database of dogs tested and you can contact them at http://www.accdata.co.uk/dwarfism/ This is an interesting website with plenty of information and you can download the forms for Urecht University direct from this site. I have submitted the results of my dogs test to them and have given permission for the information to be used as required. I have also sent the results to Chris Hazell.
I can understand breeders fears..... I have felt that fear .... waiting for the results, but my greatest fear would be knowing that I could be bringing a puppy into the world with a defect that could have been prevented and whose life would most probably be short or requiring lifelong medical treatment if I didn't have the test done. It is bad enough that defects can occur where at present, no medical tests are available, but surely where a test IS available, we should use them and try and get our fantastic breed on the right tracks.
We have taken enough flak recently in the press and on TV, we need to stand up and be counted and show that WE CARE about our breed.
The ball is in our court!!!!
by DotA on 07 December 2010 - 23:12
Aye, Shirley too, Shepherdguy. Anyone leading way on testing and publishing results truly has breed's betterment at heart. :-) Breed Council should already be leading way, disappointing that they're not, they're supposed to be the Breed council for heaven's sake.
by Jacki2263 on 07 December 2010 - 23:12
As another thought, regarding the fear factor.....do breeders not feel fear when they take their dogs for their hip and elbow x-rays praying that they will be okay and sweat until the results come back? The cost of that is more than 3 times the cost of the PD test. But we all pay to have it done, and the results are publicised on KC website and Jaquenetta's website. If the scores come back too high, we don't breed from that dog, to my mind there is no difference.
by Jacki2263 on 07 December 2010 - 23:12
I have just been advised that the form on the Accdata website is not the correct one for GSD's, sorry about that, but it was the one I used.
Sorry for confusion.
by dogud shepherd on 08 December 2010 - 00:12
Again,i repeat as in previous threads,this test is not being done,because too many of the "TOP" showdogs are carriers and if these are withdrawn from stud,what then?where will that leave the progreesion of the breed?where will it leave the breeders who have invested their lives,time and money in these dogs and then have to withdraw them from stud?where will it leave some of the best modern dogs/lines?i think they(the breeders) are happy enough,sacrificing the occasional dwarf,for the better of many....after all we dont see too many PD's in the experienced kennels,they recognise them,cull them and say nowt' ...........and in the end...i believe there are far too many carriers for this problem to be dealt with sucessfully.
by hutch on 08 December 2010 - 09:12
Abby - I am sure that anyone who's dog was tested as a carrier would still love them and be proud of them but personally I don't think I would have the interest in showing an animal that I couldn't breed from. I repeat that the beauty of this test is that you can do it very early and be able to make a decision to place a pup in a companion home before you get too attached!
Jackie - I guess we all fear that we will get a rogue hip or elbow score but testing has proven that we can generally get predictable results on those fronts now and I cannot remember the last time we kept a pup and had to let them go because of the hips or elbows.
Dogud Shepherd - the advice (Dutch VDH) is not to breed two carriers together, not to eliminate carriers completely. I know that many stud dog owners feel that a carrier test means withdrawal from stud but I tend to feel that if a particular stud dog has a lot of very positive attributes to pass on then maybe it is OK to allow him to be used on clear females only. Reading about the misery that owners go through with illness and early death of a dog that has all the lovable character of a full size GSD is enough for me to want to try and eliminate it.
I guess my problem is going to be finding clear stud dogs! Although maybe this won't be so hard as I also guess that clear results will get publicized even if the carriers do not.
Jackie - I guess we all fear that we will get a rogue hip or elbow score but testing has proven that we can generally get predictable results on those fronts now and I cannot remember the last time we kept a pup and had to let them go because of the hips or elbows.
Dogud Shepherd - the advice (Dutch VDH) is not to breed two carriers together, not to eliminate carriers completely. I know that many stud dog owners feel that a carrier test means withdrawal from stud but I tend to feel that if a particular stud dog has a lot of very positive attributes to pass on then maybe it is OK to allow him to be used on clear females only. Reading about the misery that owners go through with illness and early death of a dog that has all the lovable character of a full size GSD is enough for me to want to try and eliminate it.
I guess my problem is going to be finding clear stud dogs! Although maybe this won't be so hard as I also guess that clear results will get publicized even if the carriers do not.
by Member on 08 December 2010 - 09:12
This is a very interesting and informative thread with some very good comments . One question I would like to ask , unless our friends in Europe carry out this particular test will we be in the same situation as we are with Hemophilia testing. While using dogs from Europe without the knowledge of their status ie carrier or clear then surely any attempt to reduce the incidence of Pituitary Dwarfism in the UK will fail unless of course owners breeders etc do not use these dogs. Can anyone advise that these test are on any agenda and will take place in the future apart from the current testing done by breeders in the UK.
John Ward
John Ward
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