how common is civil drive? - Page 1

does anyone know how common civil drive is in adult working line gsd?

we see this drive in czech dogs often

i wonder how many or how common it is in sch dogs?


i would also like to know if breeders like to see this drive in their dogs?

I think when you talk about a dog being civil in SchH, it gets tricky. Many trainers in the sport do not tap into that side of the dog. Some SchH trainers don't see the need to have a dog bite without equipment.(That is if your definition of civil is the same as mine and you aren't actually talking defense etc.) Even when the dog brings it, some trainers don't need or utilize it. Some trainers in SchH don't even require a balance dog. Simply working the dog in prey is enough to get the job done. As to breeders, I'd say it's a mixed bag. Just like the trainers. Some care, others don't. Depends on what the breeders goals are and their philosophies in training. Usually a breeder is going to breed to their taste in the type of dog they like to train. Unless they're one of those that just buy dogs and breed.

 I don't believe there is such a thing as civil drive. 

Well, Jeff, what is your definition of Civil and please elaborate. I believe a dog can be civil, but to me it is not a "drive"

Possibly the OP was using the wrong verbage/lingo but are you saying dogs are not civil? Or are you saying dogs don't have and can not have civil drive?

i just notice some breeders will say their dogs have very civil drive

also wondering in sch wouldnt a civil dog sometimes ignore the sleeve and go after the rest of the man?

      


   http://www.schutzhundvillage.com/defense.html


     This was posted on another thread about this topic....I thought it was very well written ....If you click on the link at the left of the page called " Armin's Articles " it has more information .....


              Deanna...: )
            

 Quote: Well, Jeff, what is your definition of Civil and please elaborate. I believe a dog can be civil, but to me it is not a "drive"

When a mean dog is well trained and is civil to everyone.



Quote: also wondering in sch wouldnt a civil dog sometimes ignore the sleeve and go after the rest of the man?

Perhaps you should look into Pavlov's studies on conditioned response.


Most people have enough problems with such difficult exercises like Heel. to worry about goofy things like "civil" drive or coming off the sleeve is a bit goofy.  You can make any dog bite someone. That is not really an important thing to think about.

Deanna, as I already posted, civil is not the same thing as defense drive. Civil is not a drive. Jeff, you can see two dogs without training. One is civil, the other isn't. Some are born that way, others need to be trained.

problem : certain words amoung different users have different meanings .. So best to describe exactly what you mean by simple adjectives .. i use civil meaning mannered , e.g a civil person-= mannered person.... .. my friends use civil ., and i don't think they even know what they mean , in refernece to a dog that is aggresive and will defend with little provocation .. So if we are going to discuss a topic , let's define the terminology with exactitude... Jeff .. i agree with your statement .. this is the problem with the termiinology "DRIVE" . for every emotion and feeling and action .. you therefore need to state a drive ... this is ludicrous as I , 'ad nauseum ' state on the is forum .. e.g play drive , fight drive , food drive, prey drive.. defense drive ..AND the  english when using dreive lacks what is in totlaity going on in the dog's haed as it translates to how it behaves !! THE problem again ... is most of the people do Sch on this board and are so locked into the lingo that they cannot expand their minds or horizons.. just like a dog stuck into prey behavior for a long time .. they loose the gist in training to get into defense.Ditto for people getting so locked in to what they know they can't seem to learn anything better or different .. Civil drive ??? how about just stating the temperamnet ofd the dog and how htat temperamnet relates to behavior ?? . e.g some dogs are high in aggression can take much stress , , high in hardness with courage and confidence... are ready and willing to handle confrontation .. IMO THIS seems better than to use boilerplate words like , 'civil' and you know exactly what one is taking about ..Civil - means different things to differnt people .. and ... how much or little is civil .. how can you quatify that .. the dog is civil ... is it a little civil .. meaning it will take on the public .. or is it a lot civil , like military that it will take on the owrld ?? do you se yhe limiitions on inappropriate use of ;language ??