Why are Showlines generally priced higher than Working Lines?? - Page 17

Gustav well said.

Let me say also this; if you like a dog with "less" drive , meaning so little drive that he can not perform personal protection and other tasks expected form GSD, then get different breed. Please do not modify the breed to your perception of what the dog should be. I always say that working dog should be able to be trained in any work GSD should be able to do. Being a family protector is one of the basic foundation for any work. Thus people talking about that they do not want a working dog for family "does not compute".
On the other side over the top extreme sport dog which can not live in the house due to his extreme drive also "does not compute". 
Prager Hans
 

Use of Malis is a fad. Just like Boxers, Airedales, Dobermans, Rottweilers used to be. Where are they now? GSD is still here. And it is up to breeders to breed correct GSDs which are wastly superior to Mali.
In Mexico I have seen PDs using Pitbuls.Very efficient protection dog.  Mali is really unlikely candidate  for K9Patrol to me. If I would have to choose between  Pit and flying squirel ,....I mean Mali for personal protection I take Pit bull at any time. That is, as I have said, if there would be  no GSDs.
Prager Hans

Is the temperament of the Pit Bull as a whole stable enough to be a Personal protection dog. I am not talking about individual dogs, i am talking about the way some have got hold of the breed and there way of breeding to produce the dog as it is today, Of course i do not know, just an idea. would the breed be stable enough. We know of its bite but is the head of the dog clear enough can it think in the way a G.S dog does
Steve1

I'm sorry Keith, I thought we were talking about working capability of the different lines, which led into a comment about the GS's role being reduced in LE work. I was not aware the discussion was about Indianapolis PD dogs....my bad!! Its amasing how topics shift when facts instead of feelings are used in explanations.

Seriously, Gustav?  Is it unreasonable to use the trend within a large PD canine unit as an example of the GSD's declining use in LE work?  Sorry you're having difficulty keeping up.

"Let me say also this; if you like a dog with "less" drive , meaning so little drive that he can not perform personal protection and other tasks expected form GSD, then get different breed. Please do not modify the breed to your perception of what the dog should be. "

I think it is your perception that the S in GSD is "service to man".

A GSD cannot do S anymore so what comes next?

Society progresses or just changes.

An owner with a gun and most GSDs that will make a lot of comotion to stangers will be enough protection for 95% of people.

Many people take their sport too seriously, IMO.

I for one like to see 5% of the people doing SchH with their GSD, but I think the other 95% is also very right, not just have the right, to choice a GSD with less drive.

A showline GSD is what I want now, but I may get a WL one later.

I am completely at ease with either line.

I am not a all sure about the premise that WL is less expensive than SL.

Let me say that I paid much less than $2500 for my SL GSD girl as a pup.

An owner of a GSD male knocked on my door, as many others, to ask if I might what to breed my beautiful SL girl to his male. They all say they are attracted to how beautiful my girl is. Of course, I had the stud in mind.

This one said he paid $2,500 for his male pup.

I thought I would like to see it, a $2,500 pup, which in 2005 was a lot for a pup.

When I saw it I was stunned. What a ugly beast! I had seen this dog before in my ares and my thought had been what a ugly dog. $2.500 for this ugly dog!

Male GSD owners knocked on my door not because my girl has great working ablility, but because she is beautiful,  has great conformation and moves beautifully.

Looks of a pet is a lot of satifaction in ownership. No need to apologize whatsoever.

Aha, but the information that keeps appearing on this thread from me and others is that there are Plenty of German Shepherds doing PD work.....just not showlines!! Anyway, its all good!

HighDesertGSD you said:

"I for one like to see 5% of the people doing SchH with their GSD, but I think the other 95% is also very right, not just have the right, to choice a GSD with less drive.

A showline GSD is what I want now, but I may get a WL one later."

We aren't talking about American show lines here, we are talking about German Show lines, which means 100% of the dogs bred are titled, not 5%.  On this thread, you won't find many (if any) show line afficianados who would advocate the breeding of non-titled dogs.  On that subject both working and high line people understand  that under the SV system, all breeding stock is to be titled and breed surveyed.  While dogs can obtain an HGH or police service dog title in lieu of a schutzhund title, most title in schutzhund.

I do agree that people have the right to choose a dog with less drive, but not to purposely breed so they have so little drive the dog is happy as  a couch potato or lawn ornament, because then they are GSDs in name only, it corrupts the core of the breed.  You end up with a true cautionary tale,  the poor ASS, and none of us wants that. 

The reason why showlines are priced more is corruption.....I prefer WL and always will, but to cut a very long story short...I was working at a show GSD kennel and they just purchased a GSD bitch for 25,000 and she was SchH3 with a V rating at the German Sieger.

I took her to the sports field and she did not have a clue ref bite work, obedeince and tracking...nothing !! She would hide behind the handlers leg and try to run away. They had a litter from a VA1 dog and entered her into a top show and came 3rd....sold for 50,000.

The owner gets the Sch3 title by paying for it, and when I was at the said show, the judge asked the owner what position would you like...envelope handed over and job done !

I know this is not all SL and all owners but it is common...there is false paperwork, surgery, dyed hair colour....false pedigrees and corruption in the sport and always will be.....

Another kennel bred a litter from another VA1....6 months later did a repeat mating....but registered a certain pup from the previos litter.
So when this 12 mth old (really 18mth old) entered a junior competition...they all commented on hs size and...he won !! Sold to China for 50,000.

Its a shame it does go on and because there is now a lot of money in producing a great Show Line GSD...money goes up!!

If you have got people willing to buy a dog for 20,000 - 150,000 plus... for them to get their money back, stud fees are high, pup prices are high.

I know it does happen in the WL area also......A friend of mine bought a SchH3 bitch from a well know kennel.....and she does not know how to sit on command !!.....he paid 4000 for her (without seeing her), not the same as show but still its as shame, and money is money !!