GSD breeder for ring sport? - Page 3

Sarco is Esko's grandfather on his mother side. He produced some nice ring dogs.

How is Sch more "versitile" than ring ? LOL You have a pattern, and a nice rest between the phases. Lets face it, a Sch3 is about a ring one in difficulty. There are many more exercises in ring, and they are all done at once. Sch was the minimum breeding requirement, and we have made that easier. 

People get pretty upset by that sometimes, but the sport is easier, the part that is harder, has nothing to do with creating a better dog. A sch helper is very restricted in what he can, or cannot do. A FR decoy is not. The jumps are difficult enough that a dog poorly put together is going to come apart.

A good GSD is a good GSD, but I get very curious about if some of the Sch dogs I see that people like, if they would do well in ring or not. That is not a Sch vs ring thing, but a "Is this dog capable of doing ring at high level" thing. 

I do know it takes a different type of GSD, I have seen some GSD not do well at all, but I do not have nearly enough answers to say exactly WHY. I just know that this is the direction I would like to go.

I also would like to see more people with GSD here in the US go out and do FR or MR with their GSD. I could use the input. It is really hard to be sure of anything when you are so stinking far away from EU and it is so rare that people even bother with a GSD in ringsport. 

That, and too many people that might have something to say stay the hell away from this crazy internet board thing. 

Our French Ring club decoy hails from Mexico. He's one tough dude. He filters out the ring wannabes pretty fast. Well, he previously spent a year in Germany working for Helmut Raiser. Says the type of dog Raiser has for IPO could do ring and do it very well. Says Helmut has very driven and tough dogs. The man does not compromise. Those that know Helmut can attest to that whether it's with dogs or dog politics. All this to say that if FR ever got popular in Germany that we would see some pretty good dogs, out of some of the present stock, doing fairly well.

Having done both IPO and ring I think that the main difference is that Ring makes a dog think. In IPO the dog can do everything with abandon as there are no consequences. Ring is full of consequences in the bite work and the 2 more difficult jumps. The dog does a lot of work away from his handler.

thanks Koach...my thoughts exactly concerning the current breeding stock being able to handle the work....and ring making the dog think! I'd say you'd see a much more purposeful dog if the helper was able to esquive the dog on the courage test:-)

koach

I am aware that Helmuth raiser, his dogs have strong drives and he does not compromise on anything, but the question is who defines whether the dogs can do well in other sports than IPOs ??when  there is almost noone that has  experienced within the programs to test dog's qualities.many breeders in eu does not care about RING and don't know the programme how do you then select good dogs that can do RING AND schh?

many breeders in eu don't know ring sports programs andare  not even interested in the types of sports     

Not many gsd breeders breeding for dofsports other than schutzhund. You may also try gsd's bred for knpv like van brandevoort and a few others. I think their dogs would do well in ring. I believe the tiekerhook dogs could do well in ring. I have. A 10 week old puppy who already has the leg bites down pretty good...lol. but seriously I think knpv dogs would cross over to ring much easier than a schutzhund trained dog. Years ago I took an 11x sch3 dog 2xlga. "FELS VON DER SCHOPF" to a k9 pro sports event in fla. He was one "tough dog". Very hard with a bite like a saltwater crocodile. We didn't do very well....lol. I just did it for the hell of it. k9 pro sports was a ring wanna be sport. I don't know if they are still around or not. I had fun though most of all. Kurt

In Schutzhund many fair dogs with good training and very good handlers can make the Sch3 title. Only very good dogs can compete in Sch at the top level internationally (like WUSV). In ring the fair dogs cannot make it to Ring3 no matter how good the training and handlers. Ring is a pressure cooker sport for the dogs.

vomeisenhaus

I agree, I also like tiekerhook dogs, however, e bit concerned about this as many call social aggression if it means that your children's family and friends being bitten or that it does not and take along with children and strangers but otherwise, I agree

koach

I agree, but I do not agree that it should be a good dog to be completely on top of schh competitions