GSD breeder for ring sport? - Page 4

Myret, if many breeders are breeding for competition only, SCH or ring, I guess this is the market demand and not so much to do about, but this is not only the case, there are also dogs from other programs or dogs in service being used. And as you know far from all SCH-dogs are useless outside the SCH-sport, and it seems dogs from SCH-lines also are used in french ring.

Jeff, but speed and agility ain´t everything in a workingdog, I would say competing much in SCH and some other programs are also pretty demanding on the dogs, as are policework, injuries and tears can happen in most venues. Yes, I know mondio and french ring the dogs are working mostly in prey, but obviously there are dogs from common SCH-lines that can do ring3, so it´s not like french ring requires a level of preydrive that is extremly uncommon in the GSD breed, or? Even if it is, I don´t see that preydrive is the only thing that matters, if so the malinois from french ring-lines would be the best dogs out there when it comes to character and working outside the sportfield, but this is not always the case.

I was watching some French Ring on YouTube of Vidocq De Valsory. Don't know much about FR but he is a beautiful dog. The video is good quality too.
Paul

I just watched the video of vidocq. I take it that was not a top level competition as I did not any pressure being put on the dog at all....... correct me if I'm wrong. Not taking anything away from the dog or the training. I'm just saying I did not see the helper really putting any pressure at all on the dog. I only watched one video. Ill go watch the others. I may have just stuck my foot in my mouth...lol. ill. Be back.

I agree. Maybe it's the videos but I was commenting on the dog. Nice pedigree. But no pressure there. It looked like training to me.
What do I know? One guy at training would like to do FR with his sch 3 dog and tries a few of these things on his own.
Paul

I'm on my phone right now & could only watch 2 vids. the one in the middle wasn't available on mobile. At least on mine. Other than the gunshots I did not really see any pressure at all put on the dog. I definately see the "HUGE DIFFERENCE" between fr2 and top level fr3.

Jeff... I agree with your above statement. Which is why I say fr is tailored to suit malinois. The jumps alone will give a heavier bodied dog problems. I wanna see a rottweiler do it :) kurt

Myret... my theory about your comment on tiekerhooks breeding. Koos bred dust van tiekerhook 3rd place wusv 2010. I don't believe dusty has the social aggression you talked about. He is the golden middle. But it took dogs with that kind of aggression to produce dusty. In the mid 80's growing up in northern michigan I hunted hounds on bear. It is something I grew up doing and I do not care to do it anymore. But I learned a lot about dogs and breeding. I have seen "SELECT" bluetick hounds I would rather have by my side in a real fight than many of the shepherds of today. Some of these hounds were "too aggresive" and if run bear for too long they would surely die. Really big bears don't climb trees to escape. They "FIGHT" and they fight hard. When these overly aggressive hounds are idenified. They breed the hell out of them. And many of their puppies are "just right" :) kurt

Quote: Jeff, but speed and agility ain´t everything in a workingdog,

I read this and could not stop laughing. If you said that to me in person, I would bust your balls about how fucking stupid a statement that is for the rest of your life. As it is, I am going to bust your balls about it a whole bunch. : )

Of COURSE IT IS YOU KNOTHEAD ! ! ! ! ! ! Why do you think that the Malinois crushes the GSD EVERY FUCKING TIME ??? LOL Seriously, people want Mals to do ringsport, or police work. The might SAY they want a GSD, but then they describe a Mal. All the power in the world is useless, if it cannot get to where it needs to go to use it. Cannot jump the 6 foot fence ? Can't get the bad guy. 

Quote:  Yes, I know mondio and french ring the dogs are working mostly in prey, but obviously there are dogs from common SCH-lines that can do ring3, so it´s not like french ring requires a level of preydrive that is extremly uncommon in the GSD breed, or? Even if it is, I don´t see that preydrive is the only thing that matters, if so the malinois from french ring-lines would be the best dogs out there when it comes to character and working outside the sportfield, but this is not always the case.

Quote: I just watched the video of vidocq. I take it that was not a top level competition as I did not any pressure being put on the dog at all....... correct me if I'm wrong. Not taking anything away from the dog or the training. I'm just saying I did not see the helper really putting any pressure at all on the dog.


The pressure is there. Trust me it is there. A good dog likes to fight. What if in Sch, during the courage test, while the helper was still moving, the dog had to be called back. You can say it is training, but it is pressure. It all starts adding up.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x92ug5_finale-ring-face-et-gaf-jacopit-le_sport

I always want to trial against good solid hard decoys. Jacopit is the decoy you are seeing here. The French decided that the dogs were getting a little too sporty and selected Jacopit to do the Championship. Watch him wrap the dogs that bite the arms. You can pop a dogs teeth off this way, pinch his nose so that he cannot breathe and cause a lot of pain. Look at his presence. I am a maniac, and I would not want to compete my dogs against this guy on a regular basis. He is not out and out dirty, he bends rules more than he breaks them.

Any time you think that FR has no real pressure, contact him, this is his channel, and ask him to come and test your dog. : ) There are two parts to the video, and you do not get to see the trial the way I would like you to, which is one dog at a time, so you can see how the dogs react to his pressure over the course of the individual dogs performance. Shit dogs do not make it to the cup that I have ever seen. Well, that stupid beauceron. LOL

Quote:"Of COURSE IT IS YOU KNOTHEAD ! ! ! ! ! ! Why do you think that the Malinois crushes the GSD EVERY FUCKING TIME ??? LOL Seriously, people want Mals to do ringsport, or police work. The might SAY they want a GSD, but then they describe a Mal. All the power in the world is useless, if it cannot get to where it needs to go to use it. Cannot jump the 6 foot fence ? Can't get the bad guy."

So a dog that has the greatest speed to the decoy and jumps longest and highest atomatically is the best policedog? In sports speed, precision and flash is often nowadays giving more points, but this is not a proof that the dog is the most courageous and can deal with tough trackingconditions or whatever it may be that seperates a sportdog from the less regulated conditions in practical work.