Tired Of IT!!!!! - Page 5

remembering and unable to bond with a new owner are two different things. A dog that is bred many times before retirement does not equate to abuse or neglect. What happens in the wild? If you only own one brood female and only have a litter every 1-2 years, Is that realy considered to be a breeder? Having a garden and being a farmer.

You are right in every respect, James.

Much to my initial surprise in rescue work, every German Shepherd was able to bond with a new owner.  Though I did have one severely beaten and starved GSD (took me 2 hours to get near him) that I kept and though he stopped shaking and holding his tail between his legs and gained 45 pounds, he never allowed even my older son near him and that was after 5 years.  (I kept that one for obvious reasons.)

Farmer or gardener, hobby breeder or business as a breeder, if the goal is to make the breed better, I for one am all for it.  And I think some reseach supports the type of breeding that is in the wild as being fine for the health of the dog.  It is just that not everyone cares about bettering the breed.

I dont see a hobby breeder as someone "bettering the breed".  How many "hobby breeders" are willing to cull pups that aren't cutting the mustard?

I am with Jeff in that it is a egotistical statement.  Everyone quotes Max like they grew up with him and drank sweet tea every sunday afternoon on the porch.  Every breeder says they are "bettering the breed" but for some reason piss dogs are bred constantly.

Ace, - I am loving your posts, here and in the OT.
Right on brother!

Oh, this thread has hit a nerve with me. :)

Our introduction to this forum and sport came by way of a"reputable breeder" who uses agents to be removed from a number of interesting issues, namely liability, contracts, and the condition of inferior dogs sold.  While many people would claim that they're "happy with their dogs", much too much settling going on and we're horribly disatisfied.

After receiving our dog, it became apparent over time that the dog had new and increasing issues we informed the breeder of, who never offered to take the dog back or a refund, from a destroyed ear not in the picture, to kidney damage done to the dog in Europe and though clearly known about, none of which was communicated to us.  The dog died roughly a year later from a damaged kidney, but not before causing major damage in the household since the person owning it was now attached and had to go through seeing a dog die from a damaged kidney not disclosed.  The breeder promised to make us whole, and I'm still holding my breath having seen nothing come through - not a replacement dog or a dime in return.  This is where agents come in:  "your purchased it from so and so" - when in reality the check was paid to the breeder but delivered by the agent.  It's a question of integrity and professionalism - I shouldn't have to harrass a breeder when they faulted me by screwing us with a damaged dog when the breeder caused the damage and didn't disclose it.  We paid green dollars and expect to be made right on the dog - so far, the breeder has done NOTHING.  According to Manta they do between $250k-$400k a year and own about 40 dogs or so that they breed and kennel.  One would think they would try to do right by us.

Second, the agent who delivered the dog to us went to jail for embezzling money, and was in for racketeering as well.  Quality job.  The same person who we thought we had become friendly with also gave us a sob story about how the same breeder always gave her crap stock from Europe and could never start her own breeding program, plus they didn't have the money; we agreed to co-own a brood bitch by paying half of her selling price.  End result?  She pocketed an additional 2500 from the agreed upon price, screwing us out of money, which wasn't the worse travesty - when we went to see the dog we co-owned, delivered just a few days prior, this Czech dog that had been imported at 72lb's, was a SchH3 and FH, and had a following, had now been bred 5 times, had whitered down to 46 lbs by the time we picked the dog up and fed it, and destroyed the dog.  Who got the dog to this condition?  Both the breeder and a previous National Champion and WUSV participant co-owned the dog.  Here we are years later with this poor dog who was bred to the ground. 

We blinked by not reporting the damage done to the dog to the owner's supervisor who works at a K9 deparment out of compassion and patience.
We blinked by not pursuing additional RICO and embezzlement charges when the husband of the agent asked us not to.
We blinked by not suing or advertising how the original breeder did us wrong, waiting for them to do right by us.

Yet we still see the same behavior, and haven't seen anyone do right by us.  Yes, tired of it. 

glbtrottr, I don't see where your post is what is being discussed; you're complaining about someone taking advantage of YOU and mistreating YOU. The OP was talking about mistreating (their perception/opinion) DOGS. I'm a little confused.

As to the other points made, a lot of good, common sense things have been said. I have to throw in though, that the more you make it known how little you think of your dogs, the more their behavior will match it;-)  Call it what you want, but watch a dog bonded to its handler work, and then watch a dog who gives his handler the doggy finger. Is it the dog that's different, or the relationship? Don't need and not looking for an answer to that...just food for thought.

Glb.....need you to start a new thread on that drama.  It doesn't fit in line with this topic.

Thanks RS!!

But "dog breeders" and I am not talking about people that breed a few dogs a year dont have the dogs as pets. If you own a dog then decide to breed your pet that is not a breeder. A large scale breeder doesnt have these dogs as pets. They are producing dogs. If a dog is past that production time he should be retired in a respectful manner. A breeder is not getting attached to these dogs and they shouldnt. They are breeding not hoarding. I think people can be too sensitive. Selling a retired bitch is not abandoning the dog. Is this a peta forum lol.
Reggie

Selling a dog that has formed attachments is no big deal at all.  Dogs will enter the new pack/family and forget all about the old pack/family.  I could have your dog if I feed him better  tasting food than you feed him.  I completely agree with the comment about humanizing dogs too much.  They are dogs, lets remember that.  I will say though that I would have a hard time selling a dog simply because I dont think that most people will take care of the dog as well as I do.  I personally make the commitment to know that my dogs are safe and happy dogs.  But what another does with their dog is their bussiness as long as they dont break any laws.  And that is just matter of fact.

Not that anyone probably cares about my opinion but I'll throw it out there just in case.  I can see the point where people think a bitch shouldn't be bred more than a couple of times, with some rest in between. I believe that a good breeder would not breed his bitch more than three times in her life.  A person that breeds dog for hobby occasionaly would probably most likely do this since they're not in it for profit.  Someone that breeds dogs for a living will normally have a couple of females, depending on the size of the kennel.  I notice how most of the people thinking it's not a big deal to breed a bitch often are men, and I think the reason being is because men don't understand that it takes a lot out of any female to give birth, not just dogs.  The puppy I will be getting in two weeks is from a litter of twelve.  The dam was delivering puppies for about 6 hours, give or take.  That is really stressful.  People need to recover after giving birth, most doctors will tell you to wait between 6-8 weeks before anything is entered into the body.  It's not just prevent infection but to help your body recover.  A dog is no different, she needs time to rest, especially with the amount of work the bitch goes through to deliver those puppies.  I agree that people and dogs aren't one in the same, but their bodies are similar.  A lot of people probably don't agree with me, but I'm not here to make friends, just to voice my opinion of the subject, as many of you are here to do as well.  I think that any breeder that keeps their dogs healthy and happy, whether being in a kennel or a house, is a good breeder.