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by steve1 on 17 October 2011 - 13:10
You said the website of WUSV 2011 was made and supported by Germany H Grube. How was not the Country involved in its own Contest that is just not on, they had to give all information to who ever made up the website, And the crux of the matter is The problems should have been high lighted on the front page months before the event was held
That way the Contestants had the chance of deciding to go or not to go to the event. You are one saying the Owners should have known about the problems, and in saying that you are putting the blame on them if there dogs become ill say what you will now it makes no difference.
Okay i will ask you in another way Do you live in Russia or the Ukraine.
As regards the Team Captains being told of any problems that could effect the dogs health at there meetings, that i will find out from the Belgian team Captain when i see him. The only reason i got involved in this thread was by one or two people putting the onus of blame on the Owners of the Dogs saying they should have read up about any problems before they went, That is unfair and i do not like to here such talk when it is not justified.
Steve1
That way the Contestants had the chance of deciding to go or not to go to the event. You are one saying the Owners should have known about the problems, and in saying that you are putting the blame on them if there dogs become ill say what you will now it makes no difference.
Okay i will ask you in another way Do you live in Russia or the Ukraine.
As regards the Team Captains being told of any problems that could effect the dogs health at there meetings, that i will find out from the Belgian team Captain when i see him. The only reason i got involved in this thread was by one or two people putting the onus of blame on the Owners of the Dogs saying they should have read up about any problems before they went, That is unfair and i do not like to here such talk when it is not justified.
Steve1
by Koach on 17 October 2011 - 13:10
I have to agreed with Steve here. The host countries should provide all pertinent information regarding every aspect of a trial within their territory. Whether this was done I do not know.
The important thing is that this never happens again, that the remaining dogs fully recover and that any negligence, if there was any negligence, be made public as there will be some heavy veterinarian and emotional costs to compensate for.
The important thing is that this never happens again, that the remaining dogs fully recover and that any negligence, if there was any negligence, be made public as there will be some heavy veterinarian and emotional costs to compensate for.
by Lynx on 17 October 2011 - 14:10
steve1
You once again interpret my messages as YOU want to interptret them.
Yes, I know one fact when the dog became ill because it was not sprayed carefully. It was treated in Kiev. I do not know about the others.
Yes I live in Ukraine and I was at WUSV with my dog and I every week go to the traking fields with my dogs around Kiev and I have no problems with ticks. The most cases of babesious here in Kiev occur because the dog was not treated with antiticks sprays (or collars or drops) at all or not carefully, or the antiticks treatment is of bad quality.
Before this story happened I could not even assume in my bad dreams that it can happen in such a way!
You once again interpret my messages as YOU want to interptret them.
Yes, I know one fact when the dog became ill because it was not sprayed carefully. It was treated in Kiev. I do not know about the others.
Yes I live in Ukraine and I was at WUSV with my dog and I every week go to the traking fields with my dogs around Kiev and I have no problems with ticks. The most cases of babesious here in Kiev occur because the dog was not treated with antiticks sprays (or collars or drops) at all or not carefully, or the antiticks treatment is of bad quality.
Before this story happened I could not even assume in my bad dreams that it can happen in such a way!
by steve1 on 17 October 2011 - 14:10
No' i quote only what you have said yourself. I have no need to misquote you or anyone. I am not good on computers otherwise i would paste your posts or part of onto mine. However i was born in the days without computers or televisions so that is my excuse for being a computer dummy.
Well now we know why you are sticking up for this event.
and you have not said it should have been highlighted on the front page of the website regardless of who put the website on. IT was of that much importance to the Owners of the Dogs
Of course you get no problems living there with you dog, You know what problems you may encounter and you can see to it.
But look at it in the eyes of the other Competitors, they have travel, the dogs Training and 101 other things to think about when competing at this level. That you must understand it is only logical for a competitor 1000's of miles away to think that way.
They rely on information from the Venue that is paramount and was it done, You know better than us Guys typing from behind the computer..
There is no point in carrying on back and forth it will serve no purpose now, all we can hope that the Dogs affected recover fully.
But i will give you a little advice from an Old Guy who has seen it, done it, and been through a bit in life. Whatever happens whether it be in your country or elsewhere, Right is Right, and Wrong is Wrong, defending Wrong because you are a countryman or woman of birth of that country is false and by doing that you are being false to yourself that is never a good thing. and i am not referring particular to this scenario but of all things in life. and that is a little bit of friendly advice.
As for you and your Dog i wish you both well and a lot of good training.
Steve1
Well now we know why you are sticking up for this event.
and you have not said it should have been highlighted on the front page of the website regardless of who put the website on. IT was of that much importance to the Owners of the Dogs
Of course you get no problems living there with you dog, You know what problems you may encounter and you can see to it.
But look at it in the eyes of the other Competitors, they have travel, the dogs Training and 101 other things to think about when competing at this level. That you must understand it is only logical for a competitor 1000's of miles away to think that way.
They rely on information from the Venue that is paramount and was it done, You know better than us Guys typing from behind the computer..
There is no point in carrying on back and forth it will serve no purpose now, all we can hope that the Dogs affected recover fully.
But i will give you a little advice from an Old Guy who has seen it, done it, and been through a bit in life. Whatever happens whether it be in your country or elsewhere, Right is Right, and Wrong is Wrong, defending Wrong because you are a countryman or woman of birth of that country is false and by doing that you are being false to yourself that is never a good thing. and i am not referring particular to this scenario but of all things in life. and that is a little bit of friendly advice.
As for you and your Dog i wish you both well and a lot of good training.
Steve1
by vom Kiebitzende on 17 October 2011 - 15:10
Hi all,
I follow this discussion since I'm back from the Ukraine.
The Canadian Team got a warning 2 weeks before we left the country.
We all used good quality products to prevent tick bites and consulted our Vets
We all gave our dogs bottled water.
We all traveled with a health certification issued by Federal vets.
( and none of us got a warning by the Fed. Vets)
We all checked our dogs more times daily for ticks.
None of us found a tick during our stay in Kiev.
Speaking to other dog handlers who have ill dogs, said the same.
They never found a tick!!!
We are all dog sportler and try the best we can do in our sport.
To tell us, not to participate at a World Championship because of ticks ....
To blame the organizer for a known problem ........
To blame the WUSV for giving an event to the Ukraine.....
......is ridiculous
Competitors who are travelling around the world are RESPONSIBLE dog owners!!
Thanks to the Ukrainian people who helped in the best way they could.
Did I see better? Yes! Did I see worth? Yes!
It is sad enough we have ill dogs coming home and I wish no more new cases have to be reported.
Raino
I follow this discussion since I'm back from the Ukraine.
The Canadian Team got a warning 2 weeks before we left the country.
We all used good quality products to prevent tick bites and consulted our Vets
We all gave our dogs bottled water.
We all traveled with a health certification issued by Federal vets.
( and none of us got a warning by the Fed. Vets)
We all checked our dogs more times daily for ticks.
None of us found a tick during our stay in Kiev.
Speaking to other dog handlers who have ill dogs, said the same.
They never found a tick!!!
We are all dog sportler and try the best we can do in our sport.
To tell us, not to participate at a World Championship because of ticks ....
To blame the organizer for a known problem ........
To blame the WUSV for giving an event to the Ukraine.....
......is ridiculous
Competitors who are travelling around the world are RESPONSIBLE dog owners!!
Thanks to the Ukrainian people who helped in the best way they could.
Did I see better? Yes! Did I see worth? Yes!
It is sad enough we have ill dogs coming home and I wish no more new cases have to be reported.
Raino
by hexe on 17 October 2011 - 16:10
steve1 wrote:
"Strange no one on here thought about this Tick problem until it actually occurred and caused so much trouble."
Well, steve, I can't speak for anyone else, but myself, I certainly didn't give the situation any additional thought simply because I already KNEW that this disease was wide-spread and found in most locations in the world, along with many other canine health challenges.
To have set off a clarion call of "Warning! Warning! Tick-borne disease is present in the Ukraine!" would be akin to doing the same for the common cold in humans--"Beware! Best not go to Belgium, there's rhinovirus afoot there!!" [To be clear, rhinovirus is considered to be the cause of the common cold in humans.]
"Strange no one on here thought about this Tick problem until it actually occurred and caused so much trouble."
Well, steve, I can't speak for anyone else, but myself, I certainly didn't give the situation any additional thought simply because I already KNEW that this disease was wide-spread and found in most locations in the world, along with many other canine health challenges.
To have set off a clarion call of "Warning! Warning! Tick-borne disease is present in the Ukraine!" would be akin to doing the same for the common cold in humans--"Beware! Best not go to Belgium, there's rhinovirus afoot there!!" [To be clear, rhinovirus is considered to be the cause of the common cold in humans.]
by Lynx on 17 October 2011 - 17:10
//you have not said it should have been highlighted on the front page of the website regardless of who put the website on//
It should have been done. But I am not the orginizer, I can not say why it wasn't. Was just a common recomendation about ticks. But as it was already said before babesious is spread in most European countris and I was just really sure that most of the dog handlers can take care of it and know how to do it. We have in our country and in Russia a lot of Shows (show rings for all breeds - and there are not 109 participants, but thouthands) and never have such big problems, I don't know what to think... (( It the orginizes could just suppose for a while that a dog can die I am sure the big sentence in red litters would have been at EVERY page of the web site and more if that could help, if only knew...
I wish all the dogs to recover!
Yes, its a pity for me and my country that all of the orginizors (I know some of them) were trying to do their best to make the event good like a sportfestival for sportlovers, but this situation ruined it all....
It should have been done. But I am not the orginizer, I can not say why it wasn't. Was just a common recomendation about ticks. But as it was already said before babesious is spread in most European countris and I was just really sure that most of the dog handlers can take care of it and know how to do it. We have in our country and in Russia a lot of Shows (show rings for all breeds - and there are not 109 participants, but thouthands) and never have such big problems, I don't know what to think... (( It the orginizes could just suppose for a while that a dog can die I am sure the big sentence in red litters would have been at EVERY page of the web site and more if that could help, if only knew...
I wish all the dogs to recover!
Yes, its a pity for me and my country that all of the orginizors (I know some of them) were trying to do their best to make the event good like a sportfestival for sportlovers, but this situation ruined it all....
by steve1 on 17 October 2011 - 17:10
Ah well' It seems that i am completely wrong in what i said about the possible health problem to the dogs should have been put on the front of the website.
Well it was not put on the front page so i guess i am out of order for thinking a warning should have been put there. It is therefore the general consensus on here that the owners of the Dogs did not do enough or be more vigilant to the may be problem. So that is it the Owners are the guilty ones if there dogs become or were ill.
Hexe
In Belgium there is very little tick problem. we do get them on occasions but not often. I think in the 7 years i have lived here i have found no more than 5 on my dogs. I only treat the dogs with Advantage every two months from Feb to Sept. then nothing the rest of the year, So 4 times in a year. This year i found one on Gina no more and that was in May of this year, so we do not have a big problem in this small country.
Steve1
Well it was not put on the front page so i guess i am out of order for thinking a warning should have been put there. It is therefore the general consensus on here that the owners of the Dogs did not do enough or be more vigilant to the may be problem. So that is it the Owners are the guilty ones if there dogs become or were ill.
Hexe
In Belgium there is very little tick problem. we do get them on occasions but not often. I think in the 7 years i have lived here i have found no more than 5 on my dogs. I only treat the dogs with Advantage every two months from Feb to Sept. then nothing the rest of the year, So 4 times in a year. This year i found one on Gina no more and that was in May of this year, so we do not have a big problem in this small country.
Steve1
by AnnaVA on 17 October 2011 - 17:10
Lynx,
I beleive one of member of Ukrainian team had sick dog prior event. i think like a month before event?
I beleive one of member of Ukrainian team had sick dog prior event. i think like a month before event?
by hexe on 17 October 2011 - 19:10
steve, I don't hold the dog handlers at fault--I blame Nature. While it appears that in your experience, Belgium seems to have a low tick population, but despite this fact, babesiosis is still considered to be endemic in that country...so cases have been reported in the past, and continue to be reported. And all it takes for the tick population in Belgium to skyrocket will be a few very wet, temperate fall seasons; so it is good that you take action to protect your dogs, despite the low numbers of ticks you've observed over the years.
It is unfortunate that ANY dog became ill in relation to this event, but there is a limit to how well we can protect a dog against the health challenges that exist in the world--organisms become resistant to the agents we use to control, repel or kill them; or a treatment is washed off because the owner forgot to wait a few days after application before letting the dog go swimming; or a full application of the pest-control product isn't made because the dog is in an uncooperative mood, and so forth...
I'm curious as to how many dogs ultimately broke with babesiosis out of the total number of dogs that travelled to the event. That information might be useful in determining if there was a failure of tick-control product, or if the problem lay more in the strength or weakness of individual dog's immune systems.
It is unfortunate that ANY dog became ill in relation to this event, but there is a limit to how well we can protect a dog against the health challenges that exist in the world--organisms become resistant to the agents we use to control, repel or kill them; or a treatment is washed off because the owner forgot to wait a few days after application before letting the dog go swimming; or a full application of the pest-control product isn't made because the dog is in an uncooperative mood, and so forth...
I'm curious as to how many dogs ultimately broke with babesiosis out of the total number of dogs that travelled to the event. That information might be useful in determining if there was a failure of tick-control product, or if the problem lay more in the strength or weakness of individual dog's immune systems.
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