I like American show bloodlines. Crosses anyone? - Page 3

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=498274&p=6-generation-pedigree

Here's my Kali's pedigree...she's a west German highlines with a smidge of American showlines mixed in...go back a little bit & there's Lance of Fran-Jo, LOL! She is the best dog ever, my heart dog. I go on about her all the time, she's really a special girl.

I think she's gorgeous, too! jackie harris

     I was just about to ask a similar question here about the American Showlines.
How many generations back would you have to go to consider the dog American Line? My pups I have now are from my sisters male Rusty.(good hips) His father is Loyalville's Achtung Hans, but in the 4th and 5th generation there is Star V Hasenborn, Karly V Arminius, Vilma von der Wienerau, Zamb V Wienerau, Uran Wildsteigerland.
      There are a lot of CH's, on the American lines. CH Hollow Hills Sierra V Cherpa, CH Sugarstones Andre A, CH Clover Acres X-Citation, etc.,etc.,Rusty is a real nice dog.Excellent temperment and lot's and lot's of drive.Over-all, a real nice dog.
      The mother dog is all German Showlines. Terror V Bullinger, Brat V Bullinger, Ulk V Arlett, Yago V Widsteigerland, Ursus V Batu, all in the first 5 generations.
     I have a female out of a prior breeding between these two dogs and Pippa, is a great dog. Also excellent temperment and loaded with drive. She is doing great with her OB training. Very anxious to please. So, would the pups be German Showline, or German and American Showline?
PS The 5 Generation AKC pedigree just cost me $13.07.        

To your original question on working titles- as someone who has done both SchH and AKC to the UD level, golden retrievers and mini poodles can get UDs. That does not mean they have the correct breed temperament for a German Shepherd Dog. On a sadder note, plenty of SchH titled dogs do not, either. One cannot point to a system and say "this creates a perfect dog" because every system will be open to interpretation and vulnerable to corruption. You must decide what you want in a dog, and seek out a breeder with a like vision who can match you with the right puppy.

I do feel strongly about SV style dogs in the AKC ring, and applaud all make sure that the German working type is represented in AKC as well. Don't complain, be the change.

I have never posted on any forum before. This subject just touched me so, that I thought I would say something. I actually have been trying to breed the cross for nearly 15 years. I have found they make the most sound, easily trained and VERY beautiful dogs. I try to go half and half, but you have to go more than half on German or American lines sometimes. I usually keep females and for the last 10 years used only outside stud dogs. That way I can search and make my selection of which way to go based on what I feel would be the best line to compliment my girls side. By being able to use fresh chilled semen and AI implants that gives you such a nice way to select your stud dogs. On the American side I try to find Champions with some working titles. On the German I try to us V or VA SchH titled. I have found these breedings to be a type of puppy/dog that most any person can handle and yet can usually do the work that is required of them. This is my opinion. :)

My view, has always and will always be an undying, and unchanging dedication to the rules the creator of the breed set up for it. Frankly I do not care what line the dog is, and honestly the lines should not matter. Von Stephanitz made it clear that his was a "Working dog" and this breed should never lose that ability. It is clear by those that created the breed that a title in herding is considered a working title and thus acceptable. It is our job to keep his Shepherd dog a working dog, it is our duty to keep his vision in tact. I personally will not breed my dog until she is SCHI, AD, and has her KKL title, I also will be sure that those that better the breed are happy with how she looks because even those titles do not mean the dog should be bred. The dog should also be temperament tested and have all health checks needed good hips, good elbows no history of seizures or cancer etc.

It is like I always say, can your dog work? is it healthy? then lets see what we can do with the dog. I think many have forgotten what the dog was made for. My main issue with the AKC lines is their claims of wanting to better the breed while in the same breath not sticking to the requirements of the creator of the breed before breeding the dog. Honestly I don't give a damn about the dogs CH title, can it herd? can it work? I am a working line guy myself however I must commend the German Showline folks for making sure the dogs have proved themselves before breeding them. I have seen some Showline dogs that were plain amazing, not only good looking but absolutely stunning when they worked.


The problem with the american line is that the only thing required is a piece of paper that says Dog A is a shepherd (well we think) and Dog B is a shepherd and that it has its "papers" most people don't even know wtf that means. Here is the part that irritates me, no health checks are required and no test what so ever on the dogs ability. Infact they use things like "Champion lines" as a damn tag line, like somewhere in that pedigree at some point some dog looked good we guess and so this dog is now more rare and expensive. This breed needs to stop being bred for money for its own good. I have no issue with individual breeders that are doing their job my issue is with the AKC and their rules in general.

Why would you cross. If you want a German Show line get one. I see no benifit to brining in any American bloodlines. What can it bring to the table? I see nothing that it can offer... For that matter I am no lover of the German Show lines either. German Shepherds were meant to be working dogs first and foremost so why not use German working lines and circumvent all of the show line problems.

 I must, respectfully, disagree. So, what you are really saying is: GSDs were meant to sport dogs and trot into a ring to do ScH. That's BS...in my humble opinion. I don't believe schutzhund existed when the breed was started....but sheepherding did. Lots of American-bred dogs have sheep titles. In my mind, a working dog is a dog that is mentally and physically sound enough to do whatever task that his/her owner asks of them. In fact, the early dogs were not even military dogs until he eventually sold the government on their qualities.

This whole idea of a GSD being a total piece of crap unless it has ScH titles is REALLY starting to piss me off. 

This is REALITY and not every GSD will be a military or police dog; a SAR dog; a Guide Dog; or a working sheepdog. But, they can be great family dogs and excel at whatever task or sport their owners ask of them. It's the biddability, athleticism, versatility, soundness, courage, and intelligence that represent a true GSD.... and those traits are found in all GSD bloodlines.

Sara

A GSD isn't necessarily crap if it doesn't have a SchH title. But according to the standard most of the rest of the world follows (the AKC being the notable exception), it isn't breedworthy.

Well, I am not going to get myself all fired up right now! Lol

So, my reply is....."whatever"......... (how is that for a thoughtful and articulate response)!!!

I guess I, respectfully, disgaree with the rest of the world...wouldn't be the first time!! 

I don't think having a ScH title (and I have heard of dogs barely squeaking by) suddenly makes a dog "breedworthy". There are other criteria in my eyes.

Now, that's not to say I don't applaud the German system (when it works).  But, I do have faith that there are actual caring breeders in AKC that seek to maintain breed standard.  Some of these posts make all AKC breeders out to be backyard breeding morons.....

I support all dogs who represent the great qualities I mentioned in previous posts. I have no favorites (obviously- since I own a WL bitch that I am trying to do ScH with).

I would rather work together to create great dogs, regardless of bloodline, than sit here and bash this group or that group.  But, that's just me!! 

sara