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by Ryanhaus on 06 December 2011 - 00:12
My dogs have some American search & rescue dogs in their background that
had some amazing noses! I don't want to breed away from them, but the lady is
no longer breeding, she had developed her own line of dogs, and used all
of them at one point or another for search & rescue.
She knew all her dogs and only kept the best tracking dogs for her breed program,
she seemed to stop looking for outside studs and did some close linebreeding, probably
cause she knew her dogs abilities so well she didn't want to take a chance on a stud that
may have been a dud!
She worked her dogs actively in search & rescue and was even going to write a book about her experiences, but I don't believe she ever got that far.
She was a very interesting person to talk dog to, she said her dogs never ate kibble dog food, they ate raw meat, peanut butter, egg yolks, oatmeal, she told me dogs have a hard time digesting the egg whites, she said she would give the pups she was weaning a whole turkey carcus, and thought it was really funny to see them devour it!
She was very devoted to finding missing people and working her dogs, she told me her dogs needed to be able to climb over walls and through thick brush, they needed to be very agile
and healthy or they wouldn't be able to do the rigorous workout that goes with search & rescue.
In the beginning of developing the breed, I'm sure they didn't x-ray dogs hips & elbows, they went by the over all strength and structure of the breed and it's endurance, if it became lame it was most likely weeded out of the breed program.
There's nothing like a keen eye and a hands on approach when deciding who to use while developing your own breeding program....
had some amazing noses! I don't want to breed away from them, but the lady is
no longer breeding, she had developed her own line of dogs, and used all
of them at one point or another for search & rescue.
She knew all her dogs and only kept the best tracking dogs for her breed program,
she seemed to stop looking for outside studs and did some close linebreeding, probably
cause she knew her dogs abilities so well she didn't want to take a chance on a stud that
may have been a dud!
She worked her dogs actively in search & rescue and was even going to write a book about her experiences, but I don't believe she ever got that far.
She was a very interesting person to talk dog to, she said her dogs never ate kibble dog food, they ate raw meat, peanut butter, egg yolks, oatmeal, she told me dogs have a hard time digesting the egg whites, she said she would give the pups she was weaning a whole turkey carcus, and thought it was really funny to see them devour it!
She was very devoted to finding missing people and working her dogs, she told me her dogs needed to be able to climb over walls and through thick brush, they needed to be very agile
and healthy or they wouldn't be able to do the rigorous workout that goes with search & rescue.
In the beginning of developing the breed, I'm sure they didn't x-ray dogs hips & elbows, they went by the over all strength and structure of the breed and it's endurance, if it became lame it was most likely weeded out of the breed program.
There's nothing like a keen eye and a hands on approach when deciding who to use while developing your own breeding program....
by Blitzen on 06 December 2011 - 00:12
LOL..ummm mutton!!
I guess it just bothers me that some here have such ugly attitudes about GSD's that are not their bloodline of choice. I hope all love the breed and all GSD's regardless of who's their daddy. One of the regular posters to the board just get rode hard and put away wet because some here perceived one of her posts as indicating she didn't care for the welfare of a different breed. Yet many still have no qualms about being nasty about others' GSD. That's a double standard, folks.
I like my 3/4 ASL. She's my companion, does everything I ask of her and never leaves my side. Whe she looks at me I can see love in her eyes. What others think of her because of her pedigree is totally immaterial to me.
I guess it just bothers me that some here have such ugly attitudes about GSD's that are not their bloodline of choice. I hope all love the breed and all GSD's regardless of who's their daddy. One of the regular posters to the board just get rode hard and put away wet because some here perceived one of her posts as indicating she didn't care for the welfare of a different breed. Yet many still have no qualms about being nasty about others' GSD. That's a double standard, folks.
I like my 3/4 ASL. She's my companion, does everything I ask of her and never leaves my side. Whe she looks at me I can see love in her eyes. What others think of her because of her pedigree is totally immaterial to me.
by destiny4u on 06 December 2011 - 00:12
what part of shutzund do american line shepherds have trouble with just curious? how do they do in personal protection etc..
by Rik on 06 December 2011 - 00:12
Well, since you ask and I've said some of this before. I got my first American show shepherd in 1984. In the years since, I have bred and or finished a few to AKC and Can. Championships, an obedience title or two. Co-founded a GSDCA affiliate club for promoting show and obedience of the GSD and was a director of another club for several years.
I bred to many AKC champions, including Selects and Grand Victors.
And my opinion is that as far as the GSD goes, they are trash dogs. And I mean this to include health as well as character. The structure need not be mentioned.
As a line not suitable for anything that a lab or poodle could not do. This is not the fault of the dog, it is the way they have been bred and promoted, from the top down. The worth of a Am. show shepherd is determined solely on the basis of how fast it goes in circles. And the spookier they are, the faster they go.
But, thats just my opinion (and we know what is said about opinions). I'm willing to be corrected with all the examples of the AM. show shepherd serving in LE, military war dogs, seeing eye or just about any work suitable for what the GSD was originally intended.
Rik
I bred to many AKC champions, including Selects and Grand Victors.
And my opinion is that as far as the GSD goes, they are trash dogs. And I mean this to include health as well as character. The structure need not be mentioned.
As a line not suitable for anything that a lab or poodle could not do. This is not the fault of the dog, it is the way they have been bred and promoted, from the top down. The worth of a Am. show shepherd is determined solely on the basis of how fast it goes in circles. And the spookier they are, the faster they go.
But, thats just my opinion (and we know what is said about opinions). I'm willing to be corrected with all the examples of the AM. show shepherd serving in LE, military war dogs, seeing eye or just about any work suitable for what the GSD was originally intended.
Rik
by Fenrir on 06 December 2011 - 00:12
Smiley just to be clear here...your comment was not towards me right? Cause I did state that I did not care which working title it was just that it was a working title. Von Stephanitz made it clear that a herding title was an acceptable title for the dog. You are right that Schutzhund came to be after the breed was created, however if we are quoting history let us be fully clear on it. Schutzhund WAS created for the German Shepherd specifically because too many people were not breeding the dog correctly and the founders of the breed felt the breed was losing its way. Frankly and with all due respect to you and all others this breed would be utterly destroyed were it not for schutzhund and those that keep the bloodlines strong, there is no way to convince me otherwise. I see your point..even agreed, once again it is why I am asking for you to clarify "So, what you are really saying is: GSDs were meant to sport dogs and trot into a ring to do ScH. That's BS...in my humble opinion. I don't believe schutzhund existed when the breed was started....but sheepherding did" Because I said clearly "It is clear by those that created the breed that a title in herding is considered a working title and thus acceptable.". I just want to be sure it is not me who you were eluding to.
Secondly and most importantly, I think all German Shepherds are gifts to this earth, they are the only breed for me and I will never own another. There has never been a Shepherd I didn't love and you are 100% correct that they are suited to be the perfect family dog that can do whatever is asked of them. However, and I do stress this, not every German Shepherd should breed this is not our breed we are merely stewards of it. Those that created it made it clear what was essential to this dog being bred, and honestly any of us that do not follow those guidelines is doing the dog a dis-service. His is a working dog and we should keep it that way, if anyone thinks the standards for breeding are too strict then start your own breed and lets not mess up what has already been so screwed up to begin with. Once again I don't care what the working title is, Sch, herding, agility but the dog should have one and then have good health and body proven through medical proof and a sound temperament, if it passes all those tests then by the requirements of the makers themselves the dog is breed worthy regardless of line. I might add our club has a couple of American cross line dogs are are great and I love working them.
Secondly and most importantly, I think all German Shepherds are gifts to this earth, they are the only breed for me and I will never own another. There has never been a Shepherd I didn't love and you are 100% correct that they are suited to be the perfect family dog that can do whatever is asked of them. However, and I do stress this, not every German Shepherd should breed this is not our breed we are merely stewards of it. Those that created it made it clear what was essential to this dog being bred, and honestly any of us that do not follow those guidelines is doing the dog a dis-service. His is a working dog and we should keep it that way, if anyone thinks the standards for breeding are too strict then start your own breed and lets not mess up what has already been so screwed up to begin with. Once again I don't care what the working title is, Sch, herding, agility but the dog should have one and then have good health and body proven through medical proof and a sound temperament, if it passes all those tests then by the requirements of the makers themselves the dog is breed worthy regardless of line. I might add our club has a couple of American cross line dogs are are great and I love working them.
by Smiley on 06 December 2011 - 01:12
Hi, Fen!! My comments were not really directed at anyone; just spouting my thoughts on certain viewpoints...... 
Sara
Sara
by vonissk on 06 December 2011 - 01:12
Rik I can certainly accept your opinion and views above most others because I know you have been there and handled the dogs and know what you are talking about.
But I am going to add this, out of these " mixes" we are producing a puppt out of every litter goes to SAR. Whether they are 1/2 or 3/4 mixed one way or another, it doesn't seem to matter. They are all highly intelligent and self thinkers, easy to train, clear headed..........I think they are much much smarter then their German parents and grandparents so we must be doing something right. I know I am probably going to get flamed for that but I'm a big girl and have grown tough, thick skin since hanging out over here.
I have many other things I think and some I see coming true but I know when to keep my mouth shut cause I am not going to get into a deep pissing match over our disagreements.
Blitzen I give you an A+ for your post. How very true. We sit here and tear each other apart over lines and a person is making a joke and all of a sudden they are the devil themself...............That folks right there is the proof of why I only say so much on here.............
But I am going to add this, out of these " mixes" we are producing a puppt out of every litter goes to SAR. Whether they are 1/2 or 3/4 mixed one way or another, it doesn't seem to matter. They are all highly intelligent and self thinkers, easy to train, clear headed..........I think they are much much smarter then their German parents and grandparents so we must be doing something right. I know I am probably going to get flamed for that but I'm a big girl and have grown tough, thick skin since hanging out over here.
I have many other things I think and some I see coming true but I know when to keep my mouth shut cause I am not going to get into a deep pissing match over our disagreements.
Blitzen I give you an A+ for your post. How very true. We sit here and tear each other apart over lines and a person is making a joke and all of a sudden they are the devil themself...............That folks right there is the proof of why I only say so much on here.............
by Rik on 06 December 2011 - 11:12
hello vonissk, what is probably going to be missed here is that I am speaking of the Am. dog as a breed, not individual dogs out of the tens of thousands produced every year, that do accomplish something. I don't flame anyone for the type dog they own or any activity they actually get off the couch and participate in. It's all good to me. AKC shows, obedience, agility, rally, sport or German shows. W/L, S/L or Am. dogs, whatever area one chooses to participate in does not bother me at all.
It sounds as if you are doing selective breeding for dogs that do well for SAR. It's the individual dog that determines this, not the line.
The point I am making is that the line will be a product of what it was bred for. Am. show dogs for generations have been bred to win shows. pure and simple. Health and character are secondary considerations when considered at all.
Schutzhund as originally conceived is nothing more than a proving that the dog has the inborn ability to be called a GSD. And lets be honest here, the Am. breeders crossing to German lines are not doing it because they woke up one morning and decided they love German dogs. They are trying to restore some of the traits that they have bred out of their dogs. Most notably, a more stable character, better color, a full mouth and generations of h/e certification. And what they will do with these crosses is go right back into the Am. show dogs. In the GSDCA, if the dog doesn't have gait then it's not a show dog, it's a pet.
Rik
It sounds as if you are doing selective breeding for dogs that do well for SAR. It's the individual dog that determines this, not the line.
The point I am making is that the line will be a product of what it was bred for. Am. show dogs for generations have been bred to win shows. pure and simple. Health and character are secondary considerations when considered at all.
Schutzhund as originally conceived is nothing more than a proving that the dog has the inborn ability to be called a GSD. And lets be honest here, the Am. breeders crossing to German lines are not doing it because they woke up one morning and decided they love German dogs. They are trying to restore some of the traits that they have bred out of their dogs. Most notably, a more stable character, better color, a full mouth and generations of h/e certification. And what they will do with these crosses is go right back into the Am. show dogs. In the GSDCA, if the dog doesn't have gait then it's not a show dog, it's a pet.
Rik
by Blitzen on 06 December 2011 - 15:12
My 3/4 ALS will be bred back to her g-grandsire, a Sch 3 100% GSL with many ,many other HOT performance titles. I personally knew/know her sire, his dam, his grandsire and granddam. Co-owned her granddam. All very good dogs with excellent temperaments. 3/4 ASL is my maximum when I'm thinking of breeding. For a companion dog, the lines don't matter to me and I care even less about cosmetics. Then it's only about the individual dog.
by Fenrir on 06 December 2011 - 16:12
Honestly the AML dogs have to be bred back to the German lines for their survival, the lines are now all heavily inbred and they will go genetically extinct if the other lines do not get reintroduced.
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