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by wolflady on 11 January 2012 - 00:01
Thanks Rik Glad to share my experience,
You never could have made me believe my girl would have ever bit anyone. She was an extremely wonderful girl and was actually a wonderful babysitter and loved small children. It was expressed to us that possibly she had joint problems and the small child placing his hand on her rear and putting pressure caused some pain which caused her aggresion towards the child. The breeder though certainly at the time of the sale led me to believe that this hybrid would make a wonderful pet and for a while yes this was the case yet turned tragic quicker than I could respond and I was standing right next to her and the child. Shocked is all I can say. I am thankful that the child can see, yet he had to endure numerous plastic surgeries. An experience I never want to go through again. And would never knowingly breed a combination of wolf and any type of dog even a shepherd for these reasons. I won't go into detals yet this attack was unbelievably grotesque in nature and I will never forget this experience. Something to think about before breeding to wolves - they are wild animals not pets even when domesticated totally unpredictable in nature.
You never could have made me believe my girl would have ever bit anyone. She was an extremely wonderful girl and was actually a wonderful babysitter and loved small children. It was expressed to us that possibly she had joint problems and the small child placing his hand on her rear and putting pressure caused some pain which caused her aggresion towards the child. The breeder though certainly at the time of the sale led me to believe that this hybrid would make a wonderful pet and for a while yes this was the case yet turned tragic quicker than I could respond and I was standing right next to her and the child. Shocked is all I can say. I am thankful that the child can see, yet he had to endure numerous plastic surgeries. An experience I never want to go through again. And would never knowingly breed a combination of wolf and any type of dog even a shepherd for these reasons. I won't go into detals yet this attack was unbelievably grotesque in nature and I will never forget this experience. Something to think about before breeding to wolves - they are wild animals not pets even when domesticated totally unpredictable in nature.
by Bk2PUR on 11 January 2012 - 01:01
Thank you windwalker18, wolflady, starrchar, sunsilver, ckc29, redsable and keithgrossman for your input. All very good and will be put to use. I found the information about shyness particulalry interesting. I have noticed some shyness around objects that I found suspicious when I first got her; like the broom for example. She's long since gotten over them, but I felt things like that were likely the result of her or her litter mates being swatted with a broom by the breeder. I was unaware however, that shyness is mostly if not completely genetic. I've read about tests you can perform with new litters to determine certain positive character traits, but I hadn't thought if shyness like this. Good to know. Thank you. Everyone else, thanks for taking the time to reply. I wish your posts were more informative than emotional. Keep the good discard the bad....sorry.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't breed my German Shepherd without the proper veterinary certifications and testing. Hence my comment about not wanting to contribute to the already rampant desecration of the breed. I also wouldn't jump into the world of dog breeding without at a minimum, consulting with an experienced breeder, trainer and vet first. And no, I wouldn't breed her without puting her through the trials either (Schutzhund); without which she is "a garden variety house pet in terms of breeding" to anyone who knows anything about German Shepherds. And if I knew everything about breeding, or German Shepherds or any dog for that matter, why would I need a forum. I would have no questions, and likely not be interested in spending my time in front of a computer reading about you and your life. I'd be too busy out enjoying my time with my fabulous German Shepherd dogs.
Thank you again to those who replied with good insight. Please to pay any attention to the last few sentences of the previous paragraph, they weren't meant for you.
Best wishes.
Oh. I forgot one thing. Yes, Bk2PUR = Back To Pure. If you know anything about German Shepherds, you know the history of breeding the first few generations with Wolf-Dog hybrids. So, as I said, the idea would be to reintroduce some of the blood that helped make the dog great to begin with, PURIFY the trash. This was an explaratory post to gain insight into the feasability of that.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't breed my German Shepherd without the proper veterinary certifications and testing. Hence my comment about not wanting to contribute to the already rampant desecration of the breed. I also wouldn't jump into the world of dog breeding without at a minimum, consulting with an experienced breeder, trainer and vet first. And no, I wouldn't breed her without puting her through the trials either (Schutzhund); without which she is "a garden variety house pet in terms of breeding" to anyone who knows anything about German Shepherds. And if I knew everything about breeding, or German Shepherds or any dog for that matter, why would I need a forum. I would have no questions, and likely not be interested in spending my time in front of a computer reading about you and your life. I'd be too busy out enjoying my time with my fabulous German Shepherd dogs.
Thank you again to those who replied with good insight. Please to pay any attention to the last few sentences of the previous paragraph, they weren't meant for you.
Best wishes.
Oh. I forgot one thing. Yes, Bk2PUR = Back To Pure. If you know anything about German Shepherds, you know the history of breeding the first few generations with Wolf-Dog hybrids. So, as I said, the idea would be to reintroduce some of the blood that helped make the dog great to begin with, PURIFY the trash. This was an explaratory post to gain insight into the feasability of that.
by joanro on 11 January 2012 - 01:01
The way to purify the trash is is to exclude the "trash" from the gene pool. No need to recreate the wheel.
by Rik on 11 January 2012 - 01:01
bk2pur, please post the info on orginal breedings with wolf/dog hybred being a foundation of the GSD. going from memory, but doesn't only leg (of 4) have any traceble linage to wolf, and how many hundreds of years ago is that. Did v.S. do any crosses with the wolf to create the GSD. Don't think so, but please educate me.
I took you serious/novice at the first post. Not so much now that you continue to insist that the GSD is a wolf hybred. It is not.
Rik
I took you serious/novice at the first post. Not so much now that you continue to insist that the GSD is a wolf hybred. It is not.
Rik
by heiko1 on 11 January 2012 - 01:01
I say do it, better yet if you could find a hyena, that would be even better.
by Bk2PUR on 11 January 2012 - 01:01
White German Shepherds:
I know this is a topic of much controversy. But what is it that determines what makes a dog great. I'm assuming it's pedigree since this is the "Pedigree Database" the members are particular and interested in dogs of a particular padigree or background, hence the breed. If we are talking specifically breed standard, then you should state what organizations standard your abiding by. If you are using the pedigree as a standard then white is about as "pedigree" as they come for german shepherds. See below.
ped·i·gree (p
d
-gr
)
n.
1.
a. A line of ancestors; a lineage.
b. A list of ancestors; a family tree.
2. A chart of an individual's ancestors used in human genetics to analyze Mendelian inheritance of certain traits, especially of familial diseases.
3. A list of the ancestors of a purebred animal.
It is a historical fact that the first registered GSD, Horand von Grafath, had a maternal grandfather (named Grief) who was also this controversial white color.
I know this is a topic of much controversy. But what is it that determines what makes a dog great. I'm assuming it's pedigree since this is the "Pedigree Database" the members are particular and interested in dogs of a particular padigree or background, hence the breed. If we are talking specifically breed standard, then you should state what organizations standard your abiding by. If you are using the pedigree as a standard then white is about as "pedigree" as they come for german shepherds. See below.
ped·i·gree (p
d-gr)
n.
1.
a. A line of ancestors; a lineage.
b. A list of ancestors; a family tree.
2. A chart of an individual's ancestors used in human genetics to analyze Mendelian inheritance of certain traits, especially of familial diseases.
3. A list of the ancestors of a purebred animal.
It is a historical fact that the first registered GSD, Horand von Grafath, had a maternal grandfather (named Grief) who was also this controversial white color.
So this white color variation has been a part of the German Shepherd Dogs genetic pool since the very beginning of this dog breed.
Just like solid black, this white color happens because of a recessive gene that can be hidden for several generations before making an appearance. Both parents must carry the white gene to produce white German Shepherd puppies.
It is very possible that two "normal colored" German Shepherds (carrying the white gene) can produce white puppies in a litter of black and tans or sables, etc. Additionally, white is completely independent of the genes for agouti, two-tone, or solid patterns that occur in colored dogs.
So, what are we really talking about.... rules and regulations set by an animal registry used for competitions and for weanies to quote in forums or the true cahracteristics of the breed that make it great. White German Shepherds aren't to "breed standard", mixing a wolf-dog hybrid is bad business...would the German Shepherd as it is now known exist without either?!....
by JRANSOM on 11 January 2012 - 01:01
Keith, clc29, Sunsilver, Freecalkid, Rik & Windwalker...
Sorry, if I missed a good one!
BK2pur, you should really rethink your breeding purposes. JMHO. I agree with all of the above.
Jen
Sorry, if I missed a good one!
BK2pur, you should really rethink your breeding purposes. JMHO. I agree with all of the above.
Jen
by Mindhunt on 11 January 2012 - 01:01
Wolves are still not domesticated and any wolf hybrid will have those same traits. Now I was told a long time ago by a biologist that the more wolf a mix has, the more predictable and stable but still undomesticated and still mostly wolf.
Like you, my son's babysitter decided to breed her GSD female to a wolf hybrid that was only 25% wolf and she wanted more "true" to GSD standard dogs. Keep in mind her female was very timid and shy at 3 years old as yours seems to be. My son's babysitter sold 3 puppies and kept 2. Her male puppy was fear aggressive and bit her young daughter and was euthanized at 2 years old. One of the pups was shot by a farmer after she escaped the pen and killed a sheep when she was 3 years old. Of the other 3 puppies, only 2 survived because the owners were ultra vigilant and one of them lived alone while the other lived on a large farm and kept his dog penned. This is not to say all hybrids are bad, I had a wolf(75%)/malamute(25%) mix and he was an awesome dog but I really had to work with him. He had some real quirks that I have been told are common to wolves in captivity. I had to watch him, socialize him very carefully and well.
DON'T DO IT
Like you, my son's babysitter decided to breed her GSD female to a wolf hybrid that was only 25% wolf and she wanted more "true" to GSD standard dogs. Keep in mind her female was very timid and shy at 3 years old as yours seems to be. My son's babysitter sold 3 puppies and kept 2. Her male puppy was fear aggressive and bit her young daughter and was euthanized at 2 years old. One of the pups was shot by a farmer after she escaped the pen and killed a sheep when she was 3 years old. Of the other 3 puppies, only 2 survived because the owners were ultra vigilant and one of them lived alone while the other lived on a large farm and kept his dog penned. This is not to say all hybrids are bad, I had a wolf(75%)/malamute(25%) mix and he was an awesome dog but I really had to work with him. He had some real quirks that I have been told are common to wolves in captivity. I had to watch him, socialize him very carefully and well.
DON'T DO IT
by Bk2PUR on 11 January 2012 - 01:01
Heiko1
Hyena?! Really?!
The only reason I was asking about Wolf hybrids is because of the literature on them being used in the first breedings that gave the original German Shepherd it's amazing attributes. IF, I breed her, and it's become more of an if every second, it will be Wolf-Shepherd hybrid or German Shepherd...nothing else.
Hyena?! Really?!
The only reason I was asking about Wolf hybrids is because of the literature on them being used in the first breedings that gave the original German Shepherd it's amazing attributes. IF, I breed her, and it's become more of an if every second, it will be Wolf-Shepherd hybrid or German Shepherd...nothing else.
by Bk2PUR on 11 January 2012 - 01:01
Thank you Mindhunt.
I'm getting some great replies with great info. And some not so great.
Your's is one of the best so far.
I'm getting some great replies with great info. And some not so great.
Your's is one of the best so far.
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