Are health clearances necessary before breeding? - Page 4

I agree with Mirasmom (Hips, Elbows, Heart, Thyroid, Eyes, DM, Temperament test), but would add AF and EPI.

Shepherdhope listed some that I am not familiar with. 

If all the possible health clearances have been done and the dogs in pedigrees of the breeding pair have been researched for health issues, it doesn't guarantee that the puppies will be disease free, but at least the breeder has done everything humanly possible to try and produce healthy offspring.

If your dog isn't having digestive problems and is of good weight, why test for EPI? It's not like a sneaky disease that sneaks up on you.... If they ever create a DNA test for this, I'd use it in a second. Same with AF--does your dog have fistulas? ... no weeping sores on your dog's anus? OK, then. I think there's a DNA test in development (or available in Europe)--so one day, this too will probably be a standard DNA test.

Again, please clarify what heart problems are commonly found in GSDs that don't show up in a routine vet exam? IOW, what heart problems are you testing for?

I assume--perhaps that is foolish of me?-- that any dog that is going to be bred is in good health and has no known problems with eyes, bowels/digestion, hearing, walking, running, jumping, or eating and is overall a healthy and vigorous specimen of the breed. Testing, for me, is to discover things that are not easy to see or diagnose through routine observation and a normal vet exam.

Thyroid is important to test for if you observe any problems with the dogs' health (too heavy, too thin, dry coat, other symptoms) or if a female has trouble getting pregnant.

Christine

Hear in lies the problem for me.  What one breeder deems as a great prospect for breeding another might not.  You would hope that only the fitist,healthiest,sound temperament,good character and everything else you want from a mating and future litter.  I know of lines still being used that have major heath problems so if testing for ALL conditions mentioned are put into force surely there would be less disease.  If these health problems weren't around neither would the tests?

Just to answer the eye tests question....

In the UK english line shepherds need to be tested for Hereditory cataracts because it is in the bloodline.

IMO if the test identifies the carrier state of assymptomatic breeding stock or identifies a undesirable heritable disease/condition that has not yet manifest itself in the individual dog, then I think it's a good idea to test. Many dogs aren't lame from HD, UAP, but we still xray. DM is a disease of the elderly, but we are starting to test for that. Eye diseases like juvie and some other cataracts don't cause blindness until the dogs is older, but they are hereditary and some types are often a precursor for PRA, a leading cause of blindness in the dog world.  I don't know if there are any eye diseases common to this breed other than pannus. As far as I know, there is no way to detect the possiblity that a dog will develop pannus until it happens. It's probably not a great idea to continue to breed from the same family that is known to have produced pannus.

If the test identifies the presence of a specific disease that can be detected with a physical exam, then I don't see the point of it. I don't know that much about EPI, but I'd think that a dog that had EPI would be symptomatic, so the need to test for that would not be on my short list unless it can detect assymptomatic carriers. There are other conditions that could be used as examples of overkill where tests are concerned, but I won't condemn anyone for doing too many pre-breeding tests.They are doing their due diligence. As far as I know, the AF test determines which dogs are most likely to produce progeny that will develop PF's. 

I have to do more research on the cardiac and thyroid tests. I don't know what tests are used or why. When I got my current dog she was already tested for cardiac and thyroid function, so I don't know what tests were used. In some breeds like Boxers, cardiac problems are a very big deal and they can't always be detected with a simple exam. Those dogs are tested using a Holter Halter so their heart function can be monitored for a specific length of time.

Here's the link to the OFA index that lists the details of the different health tests:

http://www.offa.org/index.html



 

"I think there's a DNA test in development (or available in Europe)--so one day, this too will probably be a standard DNA test."

The is a DNA test available for AF - Genoscoper.com in Finland.

 

There is another thread about PF/AF Ruger1 and her dog Prince.   She had contacted her breeder to let her know about Prince's condition the breeder told her "I have not heard of dogs with fistulas for years and years". If that had been me "PHEW" would have been my reaction.  Dismay someone has posted there are dogs in the pedigree with know PF/AF.  This lady owned one and she knew who owned the other with the condition.  Just SLAPS you in the face testing must be paramount.
I hope Ruger1 doesn't mind me using her and Prince's story.  I wish these test had been around when Kee was.

I think what has been forgotten by some is that Health Testing is not only for the breeder to determin if the dogs they are breeding are ok, but it gives some sort of piece of mind to the persons buying your pups. Just because you say your vet didn't find a heart murmur doesn't mean anything to me. I want proof from a Cardiologist. Just because you tell me your dog doesn't have issues with her/his eyes, I want proof of that. With the money some of these breeders are asking for their pups, I think it is only fair that I can get proof from a specialist that the parents are clear at the time of breeding against the MINIMUM of Heart, Eyes, Hips, Elbows, Thyroid, and DM. I have known several dogs who have Cholesterol Deposits in their eyes. I was told it was ok to breed a dog with this as long as the dog is not bred to another with it so YES, there are eye issues in younger GSD's. Can your vet tell yes they can but again having it signed off by a specialist will get me to share my hard earned $$ with you the breeder. Without good health nothing else matters as the dog will be crippled, debilitated or dead.

Everyone can have their own opinion and this is mine. If you want to breed without tests go ahead it just tells me you are afraid to find out and just want the $$. Those of us who do test are only making a small dent in the improvement of the breed until others follow suit.

K-9mom

Very well said K-9 mom. I totally agree. A friend of mine contacted a breeder the other day, interested in a pup. She asked the breeder about health clearances. They only do hips and elbows. The breeder told my friend that her dogs are healthy and don't need to be tested for the other diseases. Also said DM hasn't shown up in her lines. MY friend is not getting a puppy from this breeder. If more people were educated when looking for a puppy the breeders would be forced to start testing.