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by maywood on 05 October 2012 - 04:10
I would suspect it wasn't Leon the breeder was going after. Basko Deininghauser Park was a beast in his day! Very interesting breeding to me.
by Hundmutter on 05 October 2012 - 06:10
GSDPack - exactly what Maywood said (Oh gawd, I'm agreeing with Maywood - someone take my
temperature ;) !!!) But seriously - if Leon is only one dog in this pedigree, and there are quality
dogs who CAN cut the mustard in there too, I really wouldn't reject the whole breeding just based
on Leon being 'chicken' in the sport field, is all I'm saying.
temperature ;) !!!) But seriously - if Leon is only one dog in this pedigree, and there are quality
dogs who CAN cut the mustard in there too, I really wouldn't reject the whole breeding just based
on Leon being 'chicken' in the sport field, is all I'm saying.
by maywood on 06 October 2012 - 17:10
I wouldn’t exactly call Leon a ‘chicken’ either though. He’s just not being handled by the same people that trained him is all. I thought his schutzhund was pretty decent when he was younger.
There you go Hundmutter, now we disagree again. Lol.
There you go Hundmutter, now we disagree again. Lol.
by Hundmutter on 06 October 2012 - 17:10
ROFLMAO @Maywood ! You may have a point (actually, I think you often have good points, but sometimes
you "over-egg the pudding" a bit ) - trouble is, all Leon's generally known for now is THAT vid of the 2nd
failure. Too bad for him and all concerned; that's really why I thought it worth shooting in the comment
about his other skills. From a conformation point of view, he sure is a pretty dog. If he brings his shape
and proportions to the mix, that isn't without value. Except to those who think a GSD can look just like a Mali x
Pit, just so long as it does good bitework.
you "over-egg the pudding" a bit ) - trouble is, all Leon's generally known for now is THAT vid of the 2nd
failure. Too bad for him and all concerned; that's really why I thought it worth shooting in the comment
about his other skills. From a conformation point of view, he sure is a pretty dog. If he brings his shape
and proportions to the mix, that isn't without value. Except to those who think a GSD can look just like a Mali x
Pit, just so long as it does good bitework.
by Abby Normal on 06 October 2012 - 21:10
If a dog has to be handled by the same people that trained him to be able to demonstrate 'courage' then it's not courage, it's merely training.
Linda, I don't think protection is the be all and end all either, but we surely the goal has to be preserve all the unique attributes of the GSD including the desired temperament (natural courage)?
by maywood on 06 October 2012 - 23:10
Well, any dog can be broken really no matter how much ‘natural courage’ they may have. Not saying this is the case with Leon as I’m not that close to the situation. But the dog in the video on this thread is a totally different dog than what I saw in earlier videos a few years back. My first thought after watching it was “he’s been broken”. Seems to me somebody may have just pushed him over the edge in the application of their training techniques. Probably a working line trainer not familiar with the more normal natures of the show lines would be my guess. It happens all the time in this country unfortunately where the majority of schuzthund clubs are more focused on the working line types.
Oh no, you’re not stalking me now are you Abby? We never seem to agree on anything. :)
Oh no, you’re not stalking me now are you Abby? We never seem to agree on anything. :)
by hexe on 07 October 2012 - 02:10
maywood, while I've only seen the two videos that were referenced here, so have no other points of reference, I can't help wondering if this dog may have at one time had an issue with slow or no outs, which was 'fixed' with electricity. I certainly could be wrong...it's just a hunch. Thoughts, since you've seen him earlier in his career?
by orkies on 07 October 2012 - 05:10
Hello,
I thought I would throw my .02 cents in with all the other opinions. This was not the planned breeding for the I litter. While at training I was helping our local Show Club with their canines. While doing work out comes this very nice moving and looking female GSD. Very open temperment, very active personality, loved to chase, good striking/gripping. I liked her alot, so I asked why she isnt in sport full time.....she is a pet. Another female comes out with the exact same disposition. Curious again I asked about her as well. Didnt even know who Leon was at this point. The following weekend I asked the breeders/owners who the parents were and I was told Leon. So I talk to the owner(s) and find out that Leon has produced this regardless of the level of female. So i meet Leon. He comes out he barks he bites blah blah very open played with the kids on the field. The comments on here are all very interesting and represent many perspectives that are influencing our breed. For those that like the strong/extreme aggression keep producing it, for those that produce SAR, therapy, and Sport canines also please continue. Each of you represents what the GSD use to be as a whole. This breeding was not made for aggression or drive. It was made to maintain my female lines temperment while fixing her stretched back. I would rather breed 15 Litters and have a strong base female line that is versatile and open then 60 Litters for 1 single podium canine. Im not the best speaker or orator but those who can read what im trying to say will get it. So what did I get....a heathen. So far by 7 weeks she learned to climb and ext her room blocked by a baby gate. Then learned how to break out of two baby gates stacked on top of her. Loves the kids, very social and happy puppy. Likes to chase but is not a mouthy little shit(tired of puncture wounds in my legs and ankles). Has no environmental issues and has over the top food drive...her motiviation to get over the baby gate was the dog food on the other side. So with that I will let the PDB do what it does best...have the most diverse opinions.
I thought I would throw my .02 cents in with all the other opinions. This was not the planned breeding for the I litter. While at training I was helping our local Show Club with their canines. While doing work out comes this very nice moving and looking female GSD. Very open temperment, very active personality, loved to chase, good striking/gripping. I liked her alot, so I asked why she isnt in sport full time.....she is a pet. Another female comes out with the exact same disposition. Curious again I asked about her as well. Didnt even know who Leon was at this point. The following weekend I asked the breeders/owners who the parents were and I was told Leon. So I talk to the owner(s) and find out that Leon has produced this regardless of the level of female. So i meet Leon. He comes out he barks he bites blah blah very open played with the kids on the field. The comments on here are all very interesting and represent many perspectives that are influencing our breed. For those that like the strong/extreme aggression keep producing it, for those that produce SAR, therapy, and Sport canines also please continue. Each of you represents what the GSD use to be as a whole. This breeding was not made for aggression or drive. It was made to maintain my female lines temperment while fixing her stretched back. I would rather breed 15 Litters and have a strong base female line that is versatile and open then 60 Litters for 1 single podium canine. Im not the best speaker or orator but those who can read what im trying to say will get it. So what did I get....a heathen. So far by 7 weeks she learned to climb and ext her room blocked by a baby gate. Then learned how to break out of two baby gates stacked on top of her. Loves the kids, very social and happy puppy. Likes to chase but is not a mouthy little shit(tired of puncture wounds in my legs and ankles). Has no environmental issues and has over the top food drive...her motiviation to get over the baby gate was the dog food on the other side. So with that I will let the PDB do what it does best...have the most diverse opinions.
by hexe on 07 October 2012 - 05:10
orkies, I figured you wouldn't have done the breeding if you hadn't (a) researched it very thoroughly, and (b) had a good reason for choosing as you did. Not a lot of breeders out there who seek to concentrate primarily on developing a strong motherline as the basis for their kennel.
It will be quite interesting to see how your 'heathen' develops, and where she fits in with your planning once she's matured.
It will be quite interesting to see how your 'heathen' develops, and where she fits in with your planning once she's matured.
by orkies on 07 October 2012 - 05:10
Hexe,
Thank you, this female will probably be run into the G litter.
Thank you, this female will probably be run into the G litter.
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