Interesting SL/WL cross. What do youo like or dislike about the cross - Page 6

Maywood,the woman who is handling Leon in the video is the very same person who trained him to his titles.She is a very experienced handler.Her name is Marta Majtasova,she and her husband Dusan Majtas /BTW a well know international IPO judge/ are the owners of kennel CHABET. Marta competed at WUSV and FCI championships with her dog Emir Chabet http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=430423  6 times,she has titled a lot of dogs.She is no beginner or unexperienced handler,I know what I´m talking about.

"I would rather breed 15 Litters and have a strong base female line that is versatile and open then 60 Litters for 1 single podium canine".

I wish more people breeding had this principle driving their breeding programme!

Maywood LOL....I am sure there are loads of things we agree on, we just haven't found out what they are yet.

I don't know Leon, you have obviously seen him in the past. This video of course lets him down, and he will be forever judged on it. Maybe something bad has happened to him between when he was younger and now. I think people that know the dog are more in a position to judge than those of us looking at a video, no matter how poor it looks. 

Cage: Leon failed Slovak breed survey test twice,then they did SV BST with him /a lot of SL owners do so in Slovakia as SV test is easier /.

My remark is off topic, but if the video shows the Slovakian breed survey, the German test is not at all easier but more difficult ( I have seen A LOT of breed surveys, I took part in several ).
If this breed survey is Slovakian standard, there is no reason for them to drive to Germany....

The helpers put more pressure on the dogs than they do in German BST,I have seen it a lot of times.German BSTs are done in Slovakia under SV judges.I know of dogs who failed Slovak BST,went to SV BST and passed easily.It is a well known fact here in Slovakia.
A friend of mine has a SL female,he is her breeder as well.I have known her since she was a puppy.Very weak in protection work plus not the best nerves.He did SV BST with her,she passed getting Kkl.1 but then he got a call from SUCHNO that they got a letter from SV that his female shouldn´t have gone to BST as she got less than 80 points in protection work in her IPO 1. Therefore he had to either do IPO 1 again to get higher points in protection and then do SV BST again or try passing Slovak BST.He decided to go Slovak one.She failed as I expected.And she is not the only case of a dog failing Slovak BST while passing SV BST.

Here is a video of Marek Kuštár,he made a lot of dogs run away from the field but not the one in the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-FBvr7RT8U .

Thanks for your answer - in your video there is shown a much different helper work than in the Leon video. Seems to be like everywhere on the world: quality and intensity depends on the helper, the judge, the training, and last but not least on the dog.
In our area the judges ask for good helperwork, free heeling and correct out.
If a dog passes, you know that at least at this day the dog made a more or less good job.

I hope the owners of the dogs underneath don´t mind - I only made a quick google search for a "German" breed survey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrtdbJ3dYaM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ_E08zIcVA

@cage
Interesting.  Then help me get this straight since you seem to be more ‘in the know’ concerning Leon.  It was my understanding Leon was sold to the United States a few years back, is he still being handled by his original owners?  Or is this just an older video we have never seen before?  I’m a little confused here.  I was under the impression this was a newer video where Leon was being handled by his new owners.  What exactly is the story on Leon as far as you know?

However, my hunches are still in play here though.  A working line trainer trying to work a show line dog almost always spells disaster eventually.  They usually just aren’t use to the show lines and don’t have the patience for them typically since they are very different animals requiring very different training techniques.  Although, I would suspect they must feel awful about what happened to Leon.  Nobody is perfect though.  It happens.

This is the kind of thread that tends to produce strong opinions.  I see no problem in breeding towards a "universal sierger/in" standard, and my initial comment on the thread indicated that it is not often that one sees a breeding wheree both sire and dam are of better than "good" quality.  Usually one of the ascendencies is mismatched.  I've not met Leon, but I like his pedigree. 

As for the motives, Orkies has been quite clear, and the pup (which is currently Orkies avatar) is heavily stamped by the mother's genetics and bears some resemblance to the sire too.  As far as I've observed, temperament on the pup is very good as it is open, displays very good focus and good play.  I have known Chris for a few years now and respect his opinion where it comes to dog's temperament, ability and ease of training.  If he was impressed by the temperament and agression  passed down by Leon on a few otherwise unrelated littermates that he worked, then I'd have to say that the puppy's father does pass that set of traits.  There are many dogs (even in WL's) that were unremarkable performers, yet their progeny turned out to be exemplary.

Many here have expressed strong opinions on Leon based on a snippet of film.  I haven't seen him in the flesh, but his genetics would indicate that he'd be a good and willing performer in protection.  Granted, he's probably not one of  the over-the-top wanna-be-mali dogs so many seem to like, but GSD's are not really intended to be that and I have liked what I see of Leon in terms of stability in the obedience films.  Having seen this little female, I believe that he does pass on valuable traits.

chris, i am very glad that you jumped in here to comment.  i truly was wondering what the hell you were doing.  :)  if you had lost your mind or gone senile.  :)  best of luck with the litter.  hope they all turn out well.
pjp
***we had a jello grandson who turned out to be a wonderful herding dog and nothing like jello at all.  :)

@ziegenfarm,

No problem, i enjoy reading the diverse opinions on PDB.  Gives me something to laugh or shudder at.   

Chris Orkies
vom GrimOrkie
http://www.orkies.com