How do I raise a confident dog - Page 8

Just one other comment on this thread:
I have both wl and sl, European of course! I have been through several wl pups and dogs that are definitely NOT true to what their genetics said they would be. I have been sooo disappointed that some of them have less nerve and less confidence than my sl pups. Yet they come from top DDR and known top other wl dogs.  My other wl"s are getting older and I keep trying to replace them with no luck. They are wonderful! I have kept some sl/wl crosses from them but now need new 100% wls. The wls that I bring in HAVE to have naturally strong drives and confidence or I don't want them. They don't fit my purpose! So, my point is, genetics does not compile as huge of a percentage as most here seem to think.  The difference is not in how they are raised and socialized as all of mine are done the same whether they are sl or wl.  Just MY own personal experience in the past few years. That being said.... can someone please direct me to that ultimate wl puppy that HAS it all and needs no socialization and still has a correct non socially aggressive temperament AND correct conformation?!! PM or email me please. Preferably email. Please no typical wl bs!! No litter is ALL 100% the same. Both wl +sl have just a few really good ones in each litter... and maybe that's been my problem? People are giving me ones w/o top potential bc I have sl too? Who knows! I get so sick and tired of all the wl/sl bias BS!
BTW I will not discuss on this board what lines I've had because I will not embarrass the breeder or the bloodline. If you feel you have to know, then PM me with the understanding that YOU will not disclose this info either. If you do not promise me that, I will not give the info. That's how much I respect other people and dogs.
Debby 

Maywood you are not sounding very informed....

I have two GSD's. One from a backyard breeder, no papers, don't know the parents temperaments, no hip/elbow xrays, probably no working titles (I didn't know what I was doing at the time... obviously). I socialized the SHIT out of that dog. Literally brought him with me everywhere - and I live in downtown Chicago, there is plenty of crazy shit to see and people to meet. Surely enough, as he matured, the spook in him came out. Strangers and new people? No thank you. He's scared of essentially everyone and will put on a great big show of it. It had nothing to do with his upbringing... he just isn't a genetically sound dog.

My second dog is from a well known breeder and I know more about his bloodline than I know about my own family history! Hips, elbows, working titles all in order. I socialized him but not anywhere near the amount I did my first dog. I can bring him anywhere, meet anyone, do anything and it doesn't faze him. First time he met a little toddler, he was in LOVE. I bring him to street festivals right in the city, through huge crowds on Michigan Ave, near Water Tower, etc etc. He is so, so great. But I don't take credit for that. It's just how he is.

I agree that a dog with so-so temperament can be helped or hurt with it's owners own confidence, or lack thereof. MINIMALLY, and not irreparably. But it does NOT make or break a dog.

I only WISH all my dozen plus dogs had my swag of confidence, but they don't.  There are many similarities among the group, and some notable exceptions, but certainly not the same.  Different levels of confidence, different levels of intelligence, cooperative demeanor, drive, and so on and so forth.  There is a lot of continuity as far as environmental influences go, so I would attribute most all differences between them due to the genetic hand they were dealt.  I think the impact of MY behavior on theirs is hardly noteworthy.  I'd agree that cumulatively with the environmental exposures of socialization etc. these influences can add up to "something", but IMO, not to significantly deviate very far from the genetic baseline they operate from.  It usually takes a powerfully dramatic experience to induce specific permanent changes in behavior, and I'm just not all that dramatic as some people want to think.  The livestock I keep have stirred more changes in my dogs than I have!

Roosters??? Those cocks will stir things up all right. Ask GSDguy08, he knows.


I sort of fell asleep through the rest,  you can be real boring sometimes! 

JK!Daryl!

No, I'm the only cock around here.  I got a few sheep now.

 

Well "Minro' I know your not going to want to hear this but if you raised that puppy from day one then it is ultimately your fault the dog was a spook.  I surely can't sit here and tell you why as only you can know the answer.  Perhaps you learned  alot from that dog and you grew to be a better owner when raising the next dog.  But blaming it all on genetics is not the answer in almost all situations.  Rarely if ever is it the dogs genetics that is the main problem. 

Also, I had to be exposed to many dogs over the years to even know this so I too made my fair share of mistakes in raising animals and can think of many that I still feel bad about.

I never expected everyone to believe me here.  In fact, I expected this.

Maybe no one believes you because you are the only one who is wrong.

Anyways, what if I had the confident dog first, and the spook second? THEN what would you say? Because ps, they are my 4th and 5th dogs. The first 3 I owned were amazingly social and well behaved as well. I don't attribute any of it to my skills as a dog handler/owner.

I would say that every dog is different and each one needs to be raised and trained a little differently.  Not all of them will fit into your pack and you won't always be the correct owner for certain types of dogs.  More than likely it will be because you’re not ready for that type.  There is no quick cookie cutter here to explain it which is ultimately what you all want.

"If you are referring to the high drive, whacked out dogs that are handler aggressive as being 'TRULY ALPHA DOGS' well then I guess we are speaking a totally different language.  IMO those dogs are NOT genetically sound and come with way too many mental problems to be a part of any family home."

So what your essentially saying is that for dogs at this end of the spectrum, it's genetic but for dogs at the other end of the spectrum it isn't; correct?

Debby, I bought one DDR dog and it was a spook.
 As for the SL/WL argument, the best dog I ever had was a SL, half American at that, so yes, there are poor examples in all lines, I think we all agree on that, however, some pedigrees obviously have better nerve than others.

 

minroe
I had the confident dog first, and I couldn't screw him up.  There is no way one can blame it alll on the handler, if one wants to carry the guilt for poor breeding, go for it.