Unhappy customers mittlewest - Page 2

I guess that, like everything else, it really comes down to whether or not people are willing to stand behind what they produce...or even if they aren't...god forbid...to take what several of their puppy owners are experiencing into consideration when making their future breeding choices.  My experience is that a breeder who has spent the time and money to promote a dog to VA status has no interest whatsoever in how physically or temperamentally deficient the dog they sold you might be even if your only interest is to inform him/her why it might not be a good idea to continue breeding that dog.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/forum.read?mnr=616077 

Dont feel like typing it all twice.....scroll down to my post.  Its the long winded one.

thanks live4schutzhund

""Before you blame your breeder for the hip dysplasia, I recommmend you do more research on the issue itself, because hip dysplasia is far more enviornmental then genetic."

No, it isn't."

Care to provide any evidence to support this claim,  I provided a url to an article written by a vetinarian and Phd that explains otherwise, every other source I have found coincides with this article I read on some level.  I provided information and you used the "no you're wrong"(the 6 year old's tactic), if I'm wrong provide evidence that will sway my perception.  I have spoken about the article I read, with three different vets, and they all concur with the article.  As a human being with a hip that drops slightly and have to pop back into place from excessive long distance running as a growing adoloscent, I know for a fact that my "enviornment" contributed to it considering not one other person in either side of my family has this issue.  I meant no offense, but I took the time to respond using "logic" and I was slightly offended when you were too lazy to provide me valid scientific information that could sway me the other way.  I use to believe it was all genetic till I dug to the bottom of it. I could be convinced that it is mostly genetic; however, that would require use of sound solid scientific logic. 

Look forward to hearing back from you Mr. Grossman, I hope you're a geneticist, because it's going to take an elaborate amount of information that is concisely expressed in order for my perception to be changed.

Can someone come forward with a link to a German breeder worth a dam listing a guarantee or mention of a guarantee on there site?  I would love to see it.  If not, what does that mean?  Again my link above....

dude, you are clueless and I don't care how many articles you link. If HD were influenced by environment more than genetics, then every breed in the same environment would have the same incidence of HD.

You sound the same as every unethical seller of puppies I have ever come across. "ain't my dog's fault".

best,
Rik  

I would like to see the article.  I personally believe it is more genetic than environmental in the big picture.  I love reading articles based on sound analysis regardless of my peronal opinion.

If people would stop paying obscene amounts of money for living creatures, especially  ones that aren't, by custom, able to be turned into human food if things don't pan out as hoped, then breeders would stop asking  obscene amounts of money for living creatures and stop offering 'guarantees' on those creatures which they can't back up with action.  If I pay $10K for an Angus breeding bull, and he breaks his breeding apparatus in the course of breeding the very first cow in my herd (you'd be surprised how often this actually happens!), at least I can sell him for slaughter and recoup a percentage of my money...

DDRDude wrote:

 Before you blame your breeder for the hip dysplasia, I recommmend you do more research on the issue itself, because hip dysplasia is far more enviornmental then genetic.
 
and then DDRDude wrote:

   Care to provide any evidence to support this claim,  I provided a url to an article written by a vetinarian and Phd that explains otherwise, every other source I have found coincides with this article I read on some level.  I provided information and you used the "no you're wrong"(the 6 year old's tactic), if I'm wrong provide evidence that will sway my perception.  I have spoken about the article I read, with three different vets, and they all concur with the article. 


Dude, it's in your own citation: this is from the article you posted the link to, and NOWHERE does that article say that hip dysplasia is far more enviornmental then genetic.  

Quoting Tom Phillips, DVM, MS, PhD:

"Both heredity and environmental factors are important in the development of CHD. CHD has an estimated inheritability that ranges from 0.2 to 0.6, with 0.0 being non-inherited condition and 1.0 meaning that a condition is completely under genetic control. Thus, demonstrating that CHD is a condition where both the environment and the genetics of the dog play a role in the development of this disease.

The interaction between the dog's genetic makeup and environment determine whether an individual dog will develop CHD. The genetics of the dog, to a large part, determine if a given dog has the potential to allow the environmental factors to act in such a way that CHD is produced. However, even dogs that are not genetically predisposed to develop CHD can contract the disease if they are pushed too hard when young by hyper-nutrition and excessive exercise."

All of which means environmental factors can contribute to the development of hip dysplasia, but it doesn't cause the condition.

 

Look forward to hearing back from you Mr. Grossman, I hope you're a geneticist, because it's going to take an elaborate amount of information that is concisely expressed in order for my perception to be changed.

Good!  Read the OFA website and then come back and tell me how I'm wrong.  HD is a genetic condition.