No, I was thinking flranger ?

Because you seem to like to quote Wikipedia:

Hip dysplasia (canine)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For the human condition see Hip dysplasia (human).
This article is about hip dysplasia, a condition affecting the hip joint, which occurs in humans but is more commonly associated with other animals, especially dogs (Canine hip dysplasia). For a different condition related to pre-cancerous changes in cellular structures, see Dysplasia.

Hip dysplasia is an abnormal formation of the hip socket that, in its more severe form, can eventually cause crippling lameness and painful arthritis of the joints. It is a genetic (polygenic) trait that is affected by environmental factors. It can be found in many animals and occasionally in humans, but is most commonly associated with dogs, and is common in many dog breeds, particularly the larger breeds.

Hip dysplasia is one of the most studied veterinary conditions in dogs, and the most common single cause of arthritis of the hips.[


{Read closely, "genetic trait, affected by environmental factors", not, "caused by environmental factors."}

No, Thomas, Keith Grossman is Keith Grossman.  My position is and has always been that I probably shouldn't post anything behind which I wasn't willing to stand by posting under my actual name.  We apparently share that belief.

I know just what you mean, joanro, I thought the same thing this afternoon.

Keith "Big Dog" Grossman wrote:

"Yes, I've been in the breed for well over 30 years."

What have you accomplished in those 30 years? I googled Keith Grossman Schutzhund and all I found was internet posts. Are you a SchH III club member (I didn't notice you responding to the recent topic)? I noticed last year you mentioned getting a BH on "Axel", is he IPO titled now?
How many GSD's have you put Schutzhund titles on (any title not just SchH III)?

Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III
AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO I STP I

Keith,

I was curious considering how you brought up the old BigDog blog?

Thomas Barriano

I am a bit confused here.  I am not a "pro" breeder, never claimed to be.  I bred 1 litter; did what I knew at the time and have since learned I should have done a bit more.

1.  If you have done any research into the GSD breed, you should be fully aware that HD is a very real possibility.  No matter how good the pedigree, nothing is perfect and HD comes with the territory.

2.  There are things that an owner can do to help minimize the affects and possibliy the likely hood of HD;  diet and weight are primary things.

3.  There are things a buyer can do to help minimize the likelyhood of their dog getting HD;  review the pedigree for any obvious signs.  Even still, it is the luck of the draw.

None of this will guarantee the dog HD free.  It sucks, but it is life.

That said, even with my litter that qualifies as a BYB (as there is no pedigree on the mom's side), I made sure all of my buyers fully knew what they were getting into; good, bad, and ugly.  I made sure they understood that HD is part of this breed.  I gave them pointers on diet and weight to help minimize the risk.  This is part of the "puppy purchase package."  Above all, I will stand behind every puppy 100% until death of me or the dog.

My reputation is on the line; both by what I produce and how I handle customer service.  If something comes up, I will do my best to help.  Within reason, if the only solution to handling the customer service is to return the money, I will.  Will I return the money without concrete, vet certified backing on the issue, no.  I maybe a fool, but I am a wise fool. 

Sometimes it comes down to not who is right or wrong, but what is best for me as a business person.  Breeding is a reputation business.  If you do not have a good reputation, you will not stay in business long.  All it takes is one bad situation not handled correctly to destroy what you love; dog breeding.   If your business is too tight financially to simply return the money for a single dog, maybe you should rethink your expenses.  Why did you put such a large price tag on the dog if you were not willing to stand behind it?  That large of a price tag comes with certain "extra" responsibilities.  If the owner proves the issue is gentic, work with them to come to a common ground.  Don't just shut the door.

Asking for the dog back and expecting it?  Are you kidding?  That dog has become someone's best friend.  What are you going to do with the dog?  Resell it?  That dog has taken someones heart and soul (at least they should have if they went to the right home).  Try to work with the person, help them find the resources to get through the situation.  If all else fails and the only way to make the buyer happy is to refund the money, do it.  Again, not a matter of who is right or wrong, but a matter of that your business reputation is on the line.  Make the customer happy, get it in writing, learn your lesson (which maybe "do not breed that pair again"), and move on.
 

"What have you accomplished in those 30 years?"

Why, absolutely nothing, Thomas, but unlike your buddy, Steve, I don't make any such claims.  Yeah, I suppose that I could go over to Germany and buy and already SchH II titled dog like Clint that clearly already had most of the work for his III done on him, handle him for a week and run through a trial and self-promote myself as the guy who titled the dog but it wouldn't be true now; would it?  If you honestly believe that that was Steve's doing, I've got a mansion in Lutz I'd like to sell you.

I train with my dogs but unlike you, I don't have to live vicariously through them and unlike Steve, I don't feel it necessary to give graphic depictions of animal cruelty, which like most of his drama are probably fabricated anyway, to make myself feel like a man.  Like I've said before, if I need to feel like a bad-ass, I'll go throw myself out of an airplane (my USPA master skydiving license number is D17016...look it up) and if I want to feel like a man, well, I'll hold the door open for a woman.  It's how I roll.

Did you do the same google search for Steve's accolades?

Good thoughts all of them, fawndallas; you are definitely on the right track.

Keith,

We all get it. You're a fearless dare devil paratrooper. We see your Avatar and you've mentioned it once or twice. IF this was a sky diving list that would all be relevant. It's not and it isn't.
You mentioned "being in the breed for thirty years" and when I ask what you've acomplished. You try to deflect with some nonsense about a dog that Steve trialed like 30 years ago.
You must be one hell of a sorry ass "trainer" if you haven't titled any of the dogs you've trained in the last 30 years.  "Living vicariously" through my dogs? That's what all the Internet Dog Experts/
Do nothing Trolls say

Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT
Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC
Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I
Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) TT IPO I STP I

I will give this.  If a breeder sells me a dog "for breeding purposes" that is a whole different world and I will expect some above and beyond.  Including some extra guarantees on the health.  If I find that the dog has a significant genetic issue within the 1st year, I expect a few things from the breeder:

1.  I fully expect the breeder to stop presenting any litter from their breeding pair as available for breeding purposes.  This is bad form all around.  I expect the breeder to "stop" that line immediately. 
2.  I expect the breeder to notify all who purchased from that litter of the issue.
3.  I paid extra for the ability to breed.  I expect the difference between a none breedable dog and a breedable dog.  I understand the breeder did not set out to deceive me (playing the fool, I know), so I will be reasonable, but I did not get what I paid for and there should be compensation.
4.  Do I expect the breeder to pay for my vet bills, no.  Those are my responsibility.  If I cannot afford the bills, then I should have taken the easy way out.
5.  Do I expect to provide the breeder full medical proof of the issue and why it is genetic, you bet.  This issue not only impacts me, but it also impacts the breeder.
6.  Would I be offended if the breeder asks for another opinion, not at all.  Again, this issue not only impacts me, but it also impacts the breeder.

Would I purchase from the breeder again, maybe.  Certainly not from the same pair.  I would also do some double checking on the puppies genetics.  If the breeder does not handle the situation responsibly; no I would not do business with them and yes, I will tell everyone I know of the issue and the fact that the breeder did not handle the situation.