My Dogs Did Not Come To My Aid :( - Page 5

Ronin, thanks for an interesting post. I got my first GSD from my boss who worked with police dogs and their handlers from all over the area. I got to go on some of the training sessions including building searches and tracking. I got to run and hide in the woods and let a dog track me. Those were great experiences. I was told that police SWAT or SRT units now use fire extinguishers to repel dogs.

It's true that I didn't know how to handle my dogs after this incident. I didn't punish them or praise them. Within an hour though I was smothering them with love again.

Jojo is awesome. She is my best bitch ever and she is done breeding after giving me 5 litters ranging from 3 to 14 pups! Max is her offspring and I'm presently looking for a mate for him.

I will not attack train my dogs. I like the muzzle experiment though. They act very aggressive to strangers entering the house but have never bitten. I have always reassured them though and say "it's OK". It would be interesting to have them attack on command ("watch 'em"). But I don't think I will do that.

Slamdunc where are you?  This person needs your advice and knowledge and training capabilities and suggestions.  HELP>

Anyone can walk into my house, my dog will give them a cursory sniff, that is all, no acting aggressive no barking, growling, none of that fearful nonsense. If he catches a whiff of adrenalin or cortisol, or equivalently senses a bad 'vibe' hell look at me and say 'alpha, this shit is not quite right' and he will lock onto the subject withthat 'do something funny and I kill you face' If I then sayrelax he does, if I say go he does if I say nothing he waits. Simple as that, he is a super dominant dog with mountains of fight drive, and we are training super hard in personal protection, which helps but he has had this attitude for most of his life. Only when he saw, sensed, smelled something he didn't like at 10 weeks he'd run to me and be super unsure about what he was supposed to do. That's how I'd want all my dogs to be, don't act tough or aggressive, just be tough and aggressive when its needed and be clear headed and confident enough to know then difference and I will make sure you understand I am worth protecting respecting and following, ie a very good leader and provider for our pack.

 

Anyone can walk into my house, my dog will give them a cursory sniff, that is all, no acting aggressive no barking, growling, none of that fearful nonsense.

I think its important to note that a dog that will attack on command as outlined here is very safe. Compared to a protection dog way different classification. My dogs fit close to here as well. Although you cant just walk in my house uninvited. They will back you out. This affords me the least chance of mistake and all the benefits of an extra set of eyes ears and finally in necessary protection. I have not found that teaching my dogs who have clear heads to bite or attack,, really fight, creates a scary dog. Maybe some of the older gurus differ here.

 

I differentiate between a protection dog and a dog who will in fact bite or continue to attack, once trained. There are times that I believe I would be nervous to have a protection dog. I dont need one. If your dogs have good heads I see no issue with teaching them how to fight. Very similar to people with good heads who train to fight, rarely if ever, are a problem. 

 

Teaching a sound dog how to fight has not made them unsound now, for me at least. Its not the knowledge & confidence they receive, that makes them dangerous. I have a Chipoodle thats always dangerous don't put your face in his or hands to close if he don't know you. Different story with that fart! He missed a bolt in assembly, and is not screwed on properly.

Listening to this story there are numerous/multiple things that happened at the moment of the incident. IMO, dogs that are CIVIL and will bite almost if not all the time are the exception. Look at the old days where the dogs were kept at the junk yards, fenced in car lots....... '80, '81 "Faces of Death" videos showed two or three kids climbing over a fence in a lot lot. Then you see them running back to the fence trying to climb back out. The dogs got one of them and pulled him back and then took him to the ground. He didn't make it. All on camera.

The average person will never know till the "moment of truth". Just as in the Military or any other heroic, life threatening situation......The person you have no doubts about how he or she will react under "FIRE" doesn't come through and the person you could not/least imagine steps up to the plate BIG TIME. No difference with dogs. With training and proofing the K9's reaction would be more predictable if not guaranteed. But that isn't 100%. I have known a few Police K9s who would/did not engage at the "moment of truth". If you have been around GSDs for thirty years and this is a first time for an altercation/assault in the immediate area of any of your K9s then consider yourself very lucky and you now know that a new K9 is in order. No need to discipline, or think less of your guys..................they did nothing wrong!

Also, a weapon is only as good as the shooter. So make sure your aim is good and make sure you ARTICULATE! in your statement.

Like I stated earlier, there are many things going on here. But a couple of GOOD things did come out of it; You survived because we all know it could have turned out worse. And this incident now has shown others that who with all their hearts believe their K9s will do what they believe that they will do to protect them or come to their aid just might not.......................

Glad you are somewhat safe.

 





  

Thanks everyone, good stuff and I've taken it all to heart. In the area recently there was a police dog who turned on it's owner and was shot to death so there are definitely no guarantees even if you invest in a very expensive dog and training. I understand the situation now and realise that the dogs simply didn't know what to do.  

link wouldn't work but here is the main part of the story: June 13, 2012 - Goodrich- The police dogs in the Oakland County Sheriff's Office K-9 unit are highly trained animals that are carefully chosen for duty. While the animals may seem intimidating as they are taught to bite on command to protect their handler or corner a suspect, they are also taught to release on command and are very loyal to the police officer to whom they are given.

So it came as a shock last week when for the first time in the 12 years since Sheriff Michael Bouchard reinstated the OCSO K-9 unit, one of the dogs attacked his handler, resulting in the deputy having to fatally shoot the dog.

According to police reports, on June 7 the deputy, a 23-year veteran of the OCSO, took his K-9 dog Gunner, a 5-year-old purebred German Shepherd, to Pytel Veterinary Clinic for treatment options after the dog had begun to display some serious aggression.

The handler and veterinarian Dr. Brian Covert were attempting to leash the dog to get him out of the vehicle in the parking lot when the dog jumped up in a biting lunge at the handler's face. The handler blocked the bite with his forearm, but the dog refused handler's commands to release and continued to aggressively bite, down to the bones in the man's arm, moving up toward his face. The handler was forced to use his department issued weapon to protect himself and the dog suffered fatal wounds. The deputy was transported to an area hospital and was admitted for his injuries.

With all this in mind; the last thing you want to do is to advertise you have a dog that bites.  You might as well have a loaded gun.

So if you have signs about "your" dogs on the outside of your fence, house, gates, unless law supports all that, I would take them down.  You are asking for big trouble and trouble  you do not want for yourself and particularly for your beloved dogs.  Be smart about this and get some help.  BOL  NAn

In Florida a sign that says beware of dog incurs libility.  if you say doberman or german shepherd on premises it does the same thing with out the libility. or even sign that shows a dog that says "I can make it to the gate in 3 seconds can you?"  are seen as proud of your dog breed or humor. and incur no libility.

May I remind you..YOU ARE NOT A COP or a POLICEMAN

 YOU keep referring to the lawmen you know who gave you a dog..so what

  YOU need training..then the dog

 I am not being rude
 or curt or egotistical
   JUST HONEST


 YR