9 Month Old GSD with Weak Hindlegs - Page 3

gautam, it is not wise to start giving supplemental pancreatic enzymes without the dog having been diagnosed as having EPI--they are extremely caustic (keep in mind that they are quite caustic, a natural chemical substance that is capable of breaking down food products, and an excess of these enzymes is just as much a problem than an insufficient amount of them!). Also, dogs with this condition typically need to be given supplemental B12 by injection (there is no benefit from vitamin B12 if it is taken orally) in addition to the enzyme.  You need to locate a vet who is capable of and willing to do the necessary diagnostic testing to find out what's going on with Mervin (my apologies for calling him Maxim before; I watched both Mervin and Max's videos, and got the names crossed in my head earlier).

macrowe1, regretably giardia is NOT easily seen on a fecal flotation exam; this is because the oocysts, which are what would most often be seen in a flotation, are only shed sporadically by the live organisms that inhabit the small intestine. Consequently, unless a stool sample just happens to be one in which the oocysts are shed, and the portion used for the flotation exam just happens to include some of the oocysts, a dog can have a persistant giardia infection that goes undetected.  And unfortunately, metronidazole does NOT have a good rate of efficacy against giardia--fenbendazole (sold as Panacur for dogs and cats; sold as SafeGard for horses) is presently the medication of choice against the parasite, and it may take several rounds of it to completely clear an affected dog.  The recommendation by the Companion Animal Parasite Council is to test symptomatic dogs using a combination of three methods: direct smear, fecal flotation using a zinc sulfate solution, AND an ELISA test using a fecal sample.

gautam, while your existing sanitation routine is excellent, if giardia is present in the enviroment, it still can evade all you're already doing--the oocysts cling to the paws of the dogs, where they can be ingested through licking; it will cling to the fur surrounding the dog's anus and the underside of the tail, it will get on the various toys and bones.  In addition to what you're already doing, wash everything the dogs put their mouths on with the bleach and hot water solution, and if possible try to wipe the fur around his anus and the underside of Mervin's tail; if his problem IS giardia infection, these thing will help prevent reinfection, and if the problem ISN'T giardia, they certainly won't do him any harm. 

It is absolutely possible that Mervin could be afflicted with BOTH a giardia infection and EPI--the malnourishment caused by the EPI weakens the dog's ability to resist other illnesses, which would open the door to him being unable to fight off the giardia parasite if he were exposed to it...so both problems would need to be addressed simultaneously. 

gautam, I think we're all in agreement that something is making Mervin seriously malnourished, despite the amount of food he gets daily--for some reason, his body in not making full use of it, and he's in dire straights at the moment.  Given the nonchalant attitude the vet you recently saw appears to have, perhaps it would be helpful to ask other GSD owners in your general area what vets they are using for their dogs--Mervin needs you to take him to a vet who can recognize that his condition is not normal, and who will work with you to test and diagnose and ultimately treat whatever it is that is making him so unwell...not one who just hands you a bill and a bottle of vitamins.  If Mervin can't metabolize all that good food you've been feeding him, he certainly isn't going to be able to metabolize vitamins given to him by mouth, either. 

Mervin's weakness and condition distresses me a great deal, and we need to get him healthy as soon as is humanly possible...I hate the thought of this lovely young dog wasting away from something his vet hasn't taken the trouble to identify.    

This link may help you with EPI, if your vet would like to read it too if unfamiliar with this disease.

   http://www.total-german-shepherd.com/EPIanddogs.html

I wrote this article because so many people and vets are unfamiliar with this disease and I only hope that it can help you and your pup. 

Hi Hexe I gave a bath to Mervin yesterday and I was shocked. He was so thin and hardly had any mass on his body except skin and bones. His legs were so thin! There is no other vet in my area who has a masters degree and he is the only one. I need to take Mervin to a bigger city for a check up. As mentioned before I changed his diet to taste of wild and his stools are hard and easy to pick up. Less in quantity. I have also started to give him Vitamin E capsules one per day. But he is very weak. Wants to play but cannot. Creon tablets are ready but I have not started them as the diagnosis of EPI is not confirmed.

Honestly, i don't think it would hurt to try a creon 10 caplet with 2 cups of premoistened grain free low fiber dog food. Give the caplet first in a teaspoon of coconut oil and then the food.  My non epi dog always licks the spoons and dishes and sometimes a will have a bowl of Maya's food, never a problem.  The enzymes are just predigesting the food so the dog gets predigsted food so it can absorb the nutrients better. 

this does sound like a case of EPI however, i am not a vet you need a cTLI test done to confirm.  Do not panic, all will be well, if it is EPI all you will need to do is creon first then feed or use pancreatic enzymes mixed in the food and let sit for 20 minutes first. 

If you read my link I left above for you this should help. 

Alot of German Shepherds have digestion issues and alot of owners add enzymes to their food to help with digestion.  My husband, takes digestive enzymes before dinner.  they can only help, not hurt.

your pup will also need Vitamin B12 with intinsic factor from Wonderlabs.com called Trifinac B daily. Or your vet upon confirmation of EPI should give your pup a shot of B12. 

If your dog does have EPI there is good information on a site called epi4dogs.com and a great group of EPI dog owners at a site called K9-epiglobal@yahoogroups.com.  They helped save my dogs life and kept me sane throughout the process of getting Maya better. 

Good luck and the sooner you come out of denial, the better off your dog will be. 

OK I just watched your video. 

I am going to go out a limb here and say definetely your dog has EPI.  He is a carbon copy of my Maya at that age. She had a more pronounced limp in the front legs which my vet said was Pano. She was skin and bones and limped pretty badly.

Once I got her started on enzymes or in your case creon she improved rapidly.  She gained 10 pounds back in a month and her limping went away. 

I just thought I would let you know what I definetely think is going on.  Please do not wait any longer.  Time is of the essence with this condition.  I know you don't know me and the internet is full of crazy people, but this time, this one time, you have to believe that I know of what I speak.  

Lynn

Thanx lynn I will start Creon 10 five minutes before meals. Then give food. So total 2 tabs per day for morning meals and evening meals. Will also give b12. How many tabs per day and in case no tabs then how many shots per day or per week Regards Gautam

Hi again:  I would suggest a grain free dog food as well. Most shepherds have a hard time digesting grains and corn by products.  It is also suggested to up the food quantity at first as weight gain is a priority. Maya at first, was eating 7 cups of food per day divided into small meals every 4 or 5 hours. You need to see a vet that is familiar with EPi.  Vitamin b12 shot is important and then you need to continue with  B 12capsules with intrinsic factor daily. 

Please keep me posted as to how your pup is doing. The creon will save his life if he has EPI.  God works in mysterious ways and maybe, just maybe, there was a reason why I opened your plea for help even though I don't know anything about weak back ends.

gautam, if he is indeed as bad as you've described, then I have to agree with Eldee--start him on the enzymes. In fact, having viewed the page Eldee provided the link for, I defer to her on all accounts; she has had far more experience with this disorder than I have, given that she HAS an EPI dog, whereas my experience with them has always been from a clinical point of view as a veterinary technician.  The k9-EPIGlobal group she refers to IS an excellent resource for all owners of EPI dogs--the group itself will prove as valuable to Mervin's recovery as the enzymes and other supplements, and you should join as soon as possible (membership is limited to owner of dogs that have had the TLI testing done and EPI officially diagnosed by a vet, so you need to get that done ASAP.  If need be, print off the information on EPI and show it to your present vet--there's no reason he can't draw a blood sample and send it off to a lab for the TLI testing...)

Regarding the B12 supplementation, if you are unable to obtain the specially formulated tablets Eldee refers to, B12 injections should be used; info on dosage and indications can be found here .  Hopefully you'll be able to find a veterinarian in a larger city who is familiar with EPI and will be aggressive in treating Mervin with you. 

Eldee, for the record, I don't believe gautam is in denial regarding Mervin's condition; rather, it's his present veterinarian who is ignoring the decline of this dog and does nothing beyond taking gautam's money and giving him another bottle of vitamins.  :(  It's a shame a vet would let his patients waste away like this...

I am sorry, I didn't mean for that sentence of denial to sound so mean.  I apologize profusely if it sounded that way.  I guess i was interjecting my emotions onto him as I simply did not and could not believe my dog was as sick as she was. i think I waited too long to get Maya on her enzymes because my vet didn't know what was wrong with her. Had I just listened to my gut sooner and not been in denial, it is easier to be in denial than to believe your dog has EPI perhaps her pano would have been gone sooner and her weight gain come faster. Who knows what long term damage has happened to my Maya by me waiting so long,

I really didn't mean to sound so mean, i guess i just wanted the urgency of the situation to be understood, if puppy has EPI.

Eldee, no worries...I wasn't trying to make you feel badly, just wanted to be sure it was clear that it's the present vet who is denying that there's anything seriously wrong with Mervin, not gautam. :)  We are SO lucky, here in the States, where most vets ARE familiar with EPI in our breed, and would have done the testing and made the diagnosis several months back...it's shocking to see how Mervin has declined in just 5 months, from the way he appeared in his video at 4 months to the way he looks now, at 9 months.  :(  You've given excellent advice to gautam, and once he can get an official diagnosis from a more informed vet, he'll be able to join the Yahoo! group and benefit from the support and wisdom that group provides, too.