Epilepsy - Meerdyke Machk's short life - Page 5

Linda,
We agree, that with some Breeders it is "do as I say not as I do" you would of course "expect" them to know and have read back on carriers ancestry but why would they when it is staring them in the face on the first five generations, dogs that have had a sibling that suffered with Epilepsy and also Producers of Epilepsy. Denial seems to be their defense even when faced with the facts that they knew what was in the lines, and sadly it seems to work for them. Some people believe what they want to believe not what is necessary the truth and that is why they still breed and have a market for their puppies. It is difficult to understand why/how this breeder acquired Belgran Incaspirit at Vonsilvas, as you have mentioned they would be selling the female for breeding knowing what is in these lines.?????


Writing a letter to Steve Dean is a very good idea, and hope that the response is more encouraging and positive.


Bringing this horrible disease to the table is not easy but is so necessary, although it has been swept under the carpet under a veil of secrecy people like Rachael are willing to lift that veil and expose these lines and although painful share her story about Bailey in the hope that this will encourage others that find themselves in a similar situation to do something.
As nothing will every change, no family will ever be saved of losing their beloved dog to an illness that could have been prevented, no dogs will be saved in the future if we say nothing, just remember one thing, if you have bought a pup in good faith and find that you and your dog are victims of an unscrupulous breeder ,it is not your fault, you have done nothing wrong, this is the breeders problem they are the ones that do not want you to speak up,staying quiet, and you are helping them to do to others what has been done to you and your dog.

Margaret

Yes Margaret it was something of a rhetorical question about the breeders not researching it
properly !  I quite agree with you.  Have just PM'd Rachael that I'm going to have another
bash at the Kennel Club on all this - it has been mentioned before by me to them - but I can
update what I say to them a bit now and major on the specifics;  maybe I'll get something more
sensible in terms of a commitment and plan to start dealing with it, this time, though don't hold
your breath... 

For people in the UK I think that the biggest clue that determines to investigate or not lies in the names on the pedigree.  First they will show which faction they are dealing with i.e the German faction normally has the Kennel followed by a single name (Shortcomings Fred) whereas the english faction has something like Shooting Star at Meerdyke.

For the benefit of the unsuspecting public the Kennel Club should make it clear which faction people are dealing with and with approriate warniings.

Mackenzie

Mackenzie, that name format does not always follow. The 'at Meerdyke' or 'at Darkside' or whatever only denotes that that particular dog was bought in from another kennel. A home bred dog would have the kennel name first in the same way as the 'German' faction, as in Meerdyke Machk. Also, I have terrible misgivings about your statement about 'German' faction kennels. This implies, quite wrongly and in my opinion dangerously, that these problems do not exist in these lines. They do.

I agree that people should pretty much 'write off' a certain type of breeder as one not to deal with, but I would not suggest that simply because a breeder seems to be of the 'german' faction a pedigree should not be researched and that they are by default clear of any health problems in the lines.

I found some articles of interest on epilepsy in Dog World written by Steve Dean.

The following is about causes of siezures

http://www.dogworld.co.uk/product.php/1922/Features/08-Dean

a quote from the above article by Steve Dean is:


"Now the question everyone wants answered – how do we tell when epilepsy is an inherited defect? Some breeds have a known high incidence but as crossbreeds also suffer from epileptic seizures it would seem a low level is ‘normal’ in the canine species.
Furthermore, the difficulty we have diagnosing the cause of seizures means that it is very difficult to build an information base in a breed to help establish an inheritance link.
Clearly, the only practical advice that can be given is do not breed from epileptic animals and seek the best diagnosis you can to eliminate all other physical causes.
However, the onset of epilepsy later in life does not mean an inherited disaster is looming. The most reliable indicator is the family history and if there are reports of epilepsy in a breed line then it is safer to assume the individual has an inherited problem."

my suggestion would be that the perfect place to start to "build an information base in a breed to help establish an inheritance link." would be the Kennel Club themselves.  They already hold a huge database of all registered dogs and if owners were encouraged to report certain potentially inherited diseases, duplicate illnesses in lines could then easily be traced.

If only it were that easy Baileyboy, some diseases like epilepsy are not cut and dried, not all fits are hereditary, in fact, since they can be a symptom of some herpes viruses, it is also possible to assume a disease is genetically in a line when it is actually being passed on through a venereal disease.  The KC do have a feature to check the inbreeding coefficient, but as it only covers 5 generations, unless you know the more recent names, you can have a huge backmassing of high risk lines further back.

Unfortunately, those who do the least pedigree research are those simply seeking a family pet, often for the first time or after having had a GSD before that was healthy, and they typically want an "old fashioned, heavy boned, straight backed one with a friendly temperament" and don't want "one of those showdogs with hump backs and funny back legs" and if that is their main criteria, the most likely source is a breeder that uses old English lines and doesn't exhibit at shows.

Margaret N-J

BaileyBoy2010 - I thought that my last post would be interpreted by some that the German blood does not have this disease and, of course, you are quite right in saying that they do have epilepsy in their lines.   However, I do believe that the frequency of epilepsy arising is considerably lower these days than in other places.

It would help in the UK if the Kennel Club would flag all known producers of the disease together with their progeny and endorse all the registrations as unfit for breeding.   This should also apply to all new cases once known.

Mackenzie

Well the KC have taken such action in the past with haemophilia so they have a track record for it, but the mode of inheritance and diagnosis of haemophilia is proveable, they could be on a sticky wicket with epilepsy as there is no way to positively prove any specific case is hereditary, though it clearly is in some, probably most, cases.

Margaret N-J

mackenzie
the naming thing, as Abby points out, really ain't quite that simple.  Fortunately it is NOT the
only information on which I'm relying in dealings with the Kennel Club  UK ;

I agree it would help if the KC would 'flag' cases up;  but they have previously been reluctant
to go there, for epileptic dogs or other health issues  -  this  is precisely one of the methods I
and others have been working on trying to persuade them to do, for some years.

We'll just keep plugging away ...BTW this would take into account ALL lines of GSDs bred in the
UK, or imported from Germany or elsewhere (including the States), but obviously some breeders
or groups of breeders are worse than others;  it is one thing having epilepsy-producing dogs way
back in one section of your dogs' lines and doing all you can to breed AWAY from them,  & quite
another to be - deliberately - back-crossing to INCREASE the influence of those early dogs, in
pursuit of other  breed characteristics.