Chocolate GSDs....sigh - Page 5

Hundmutter.....I said nothing about high drive dog.....I said srong, courageous, versatile working dog. What about a seeing-eye dog.....that dog cant be high drive but yet meets the definition I laid out. People want to always revert to using high drive as example of a dog that provides service. I'm talking about good strong sound dogs that can withstand stress so they can be seeing eye dogs or Search and Rescue dogs or good scent dogs. What I have found is that breeding for specific colors like liver (or others) leads to dogs that have a disproprtionate amount of timidity, fear aggression, weak nerves, hyperactivity, etc. and these are things that when exhibited should not be covered over and certainly not bred. Its not the drive its the nerve that i find color breeding lessens, but maybe I'm missing some color schemes that are maintaining this consistently and I havent been exposed to them.

Forgot to sayHundmutter.....I don't see high drive in the standard so thats not a necessary component for me to be a nice dog. Breeding for Livers or Blues are not my idea of responsible breeding, though I think there are some very nice livers or blues that can come out of a standard bred litter.jmo

Sorry, Gustav;  we're not really disagreeing, I just used a 'high-drive' dog as an
example to illustrate more clearly what some of the options for pet owners are.
Guilty of using the same ol' shorthand.  But I think it illustrates my point more
clearly to those who yet need to be convinced that breeding for 'rare' colours
only isn't a clever thing.  I could not really talk about a dog with the character
for being a guide dog, for instance, in that context, 'cos the great general public
would just go "Oh I could live with a guide dog temperament."  I feel that a lot
of jobs we give GSDs that don't involve bitework DO involve good 'drive' - stock
herding, S&R, etc.  If we 'just' harp on about coat colour, and the Standard, we
lose the people who cannot get their heads around why those are necessary
in the first place, I feel.

Good point Hundmutter!

Now its my turn to set the record straight, the sniffer dog in question (kintonkaiz cool blue dude) was sold to a policeman aged 12weeks after the breeder had an outbreak of lepto (was in local press) he then came back to said breeder around 12-18months after failing his gun test, never was this dog a drug sniffer dog or an operational police dog the breeder likes to make him out to be.

Also the white dog on her website (tidal chills at kintonkaiz) is not 13yrs old as stated by the breeder he was born sept 2001 (you can check with the kc).

The breeder does indeed have a white dog with blue eyes (blue hiro) his sires (dortmundline blue griffon at kintonkaiz) hips were screened not scored and would of scored in the 30s and his dam (blue njeri) was screened in the 40s. 

Im glad to see the breeder is still using Jay Kays name to sell puppies, i hope she has mentioned his 2 epileptic siblings (oh yes and the one with epi) or i could mention his half brother (through his sire - kintonkaiz parisian ice) his pedigree name being kintonkaiz grey skye whos hipscore is 40/44 elbows being 2 or also his half sister colandees blue dream maker who is undergoing treatment for severe hip dysplasia, arthritis and spondylosis. 

Oh yes not forgetting cool blue dudes litter brothers (kintonkaiz blue ghost) daughter (kintonkaiz echoes o chiana) the bitch who at 11months had to have a hip replacement.
(These facts are 100% correct and are checkable).

And the point to this whole entire thread the 'chocolate' german shepherds lets just hope she is not using her 'chocolate' german shepherd bitch krakenedge calypso hip score 32/42.

p.s there are many more facts i could state but these are the ones i know that are checkable.

It would be helpful if you would explain the hip rating for those of us not in the UK.  Or, maybe you did and I just missed it,in which case my apologies. 

Taken from BVA webpage http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/Interpretation-and-_use-of-BVA-KC_Hip-Scores.pdf

 0 to 4 total score: perfect or near perfect hips

 5 to 10 total score: borderline changes that are unlikely to worsen with age

11 to 20 total score: mild changes that may worsen with age, sometimes developing into osteoarthritis

21 to 50 total score: moderate to marked hip dysplasia in which osteoarthritis is already a prominent

feature, or severe hip dysplasia before arthritic change

Above 50: severe to very severe osteoarthritis secondary to hip dysplasia

If the scores of the two hips are markedly different, the worse of the two hips should be considered

to be more representative of the dog’s hip status, and doubling that single hip score will give a more realistic

overall score for the purposes of selection for breeding. For example, a dog with a score of 12:3 should be

considered to have a hip status similar to other dogs with a total score in the mid-20s.

Thanks spooks; Dumpy, I can confirm at least some of those details.  Actually we were avoiding
being this graphic because we were gently trying to educate the OP, who is an apparent
'innocent' customer of CB,  & who had 'bought into' the stuff she had told her, and we didn't
want to stir the pot worse - (far from enjoying vicious 'gossip' !) - the info mostly
already being on here and/or checkable if you want to look for it.  OP clearly didnt want
to look.  She has two dogs she is so far more than satisfied with, and loves.


ps  Dumpy, how DO you get hips 'screened' and totalled, in this day n age ?  No 'BVA Letters'
for longer than that dog has been alive, surely ?

Linda, Indeed.

I really regret putting any backstory to my original post now, thereby involving them.

@ hisblue, I apologise for doing so, and having spent some time reflecting on it I can see that I could have simply posted about the breeder and the ‘chocolates’ without the need for the backstory that prompted it. I realise that it must have seemed a very hurtful thing to do.

Without the breeder having brought you into it, this would no doubt have unfolded without you becoming involved, and had I not mentioned you, I doubt she would have chosen to share this thread with you now.

It takes a strong and confident person to reflect on their actions and see them impatially then return to make a statment and try to make things right. I do not know you but this speaks well of you. No one goes through life without committing any mistakes or regrets and it how they are handled in the afterthought that makes the difference. 

       I was appalled years ago to see dogs there being sold under all sorts of color lables even champagne! The barest of minimum pet tests are used as breeding criteria and this is the path I am afriad the AKC is headed for with allowing the CGC to now be a title and this is how it started there.