low thresholds = poor nerves??? - Page 4

@Slamdunc..How would you describe courage in a dog does this also relate to nerves?

I had a  GSD that I feel was sharp and had strong nerves,  She was always on alert ready to act, but not react. I think she slept with one eye open.   She  was very confident.

My current boy is also a bit sharp, but  in a reactive way and I am not sure if tat means weak nerves. For example, he was sleeping on the floor in my room and my adult son came in and stepped on him in the dark. In a flash  the dog lunged, pinned him against the sink and went to nip, when suddenly his brain kicked in and realizing it was a family member he stopped.

Minicus,
I rarely if ever use the word "courage" to describe a dog or a dog's temperament.  I try not to humanize a dogs temperament, I certainly do not anthropomorphize a dog's behavior.   Dog's rarely react out of courage, but more out of drive, instinct and training, IMO.  I may use strong, hard, tough, high drive, etc to describe a dog but courage is not a word I generally use.  I don't think dogs view their world in the same way we view ours.  If my K-9 apprehends and fights a violent felon, which he has done many times he is not being courageous but has high fight drive, high prey and high defense and wants to dominate and not back down.  Some may call that courage, I view it as a strong dog with natural aggression and a desire to win.    If that makes sense?

It reminds me of a staement I have heard several times. "The only thing two dog trainers can agree on is what the third one is doing wrong" 

In my circle of dog folks "sharp was aggression through fear"

It is almost impossible to find a dog with out hours of describing what you want, and then who knows. On this fourm you discribe what you want and 20 people tell you that you are wrong LOL

n my circle of dog folks "sharp was aggression through fear


That is what I refer to as "sharp / shy."

Slamduc,
Thank you for the insight I can definitely see there is a difference.

My first GSD was real aggressive "sharp" but when hard pressure was applied he got real nervie. Was not "shy" at all but he would sure bite given any chance. He could not handle the pressure of a hold and bark it was just bite bite bite. I sold him to a Wrecking Yard and a fine fit that was.

i too do not like the word courage applied to dogs, imo it is all; training , saturation and desensitisation to the stimulus your dog might encounter. those FR dogs look fearless but it is easy to forget the lengthy conditioning/desensitisation those dogs go thru since birth.  take a pure flight animal - a race horse, many of these naturally flighty animals can be trained as riot horses and face large crowds of shouting people and be taught to run straight into gunfire etc. nothing to do with courage just methodical sensible  training.

so is the trend toward increasing prey drive in working dogs effectively equivalent to breeding good nerves as these dogs can be trained in prey to endure extreme negative pressure/pain etc but their crazy drive level gets them thru it. if the dog is nervey it is irrelevant in the final picture, the dogs is doing its job in spite of what type of drive it is in. a leo friend attended a seminar which me not being a cop was not allowed to go to and the whole thing was developing and utilising prey drive. seems high enough prey is actually is the most useful drive as it is easier to train in, less stress for the dog and the final picture is exactly the same but you got a morereliable dog and more useful dog than a high defence dog. i digress.

vk4gs and Samdunc what is your defintion of courage?  ( This is not a set up question. ) 
Prager Hans

Hans, my definition of courage does not apply to animals other than humans. i do believe animals know fear tho. people talk about the courage of the mongoose as it fights the cobra, courage or instinctive responses genetically programmed behaviour inevitable thru millions of mongoose generations and natural selection in a darwinian sense over millions of years? the bull-dog that attacks another animal, courage?....examples are numerous.  i think there are traits displayed by dogs that have an analogy to courage as applies to humans but it is anthropomorphisation to call it courage. that  to me is purely a function of training, exposure, saturation, confidence building, familiarity etc and a dogs genetic nervous structure. yes i do believe dogs can be confident without being courageous as it applies to humans. i have seen YT comments of mals running into simulated gunfire, smoke.....to hit a decoy and people go on about how brave the dog is, i don't see a brave dog at all, i see a highly driven and well trained animal.

the courage test in schuts.......hmmm.

if yr pushing me for a definition the best i can do spontanously is; courage to me is knowing full well the grave consequences of yr actions specifically relating to your own mortality and perservering with a moral course of action anyway. i am sure if i actually thought about it for more than a second i would get a better definition for you.

as dogs i am told are not aware of their own mortality they can not act in a courageous manner, as it applies to humans at least.