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by susie on 31 January 2013 - 20:01
In Germany the Schutzhund sport wasn´t invented for the police, but as a breed selection.
This is a tradition, could have been anything else, but the people decided to test the dogs in tracking, obedience, and bitework.
The German police and the military weren´t interested in own programs. They always bought young adult dogs - not too difficult to find them - for decades there were born up to 20.000 (!) German Shepherds every year in Germany. People sold agressive dogs, high drive dogs, for little money, good enough for the police...
During the seventies and the eighties the Italians and the Americans started to buy dogs for police, they paid better than the German police ( and at that point they didn´t know that much about dogs.
..)
During the late eighties and the early nineties SchH became a sport people were able to make a dime.
People overseas ( private AND official ) paid much more than the German police and military.
Brokers were and are everywhere....
There are still a lot of good dogs, but it´s easier ( = more money ) to sell them anywhere else than to police....makes more money. People don´t like to sell a dog they raised, basic trained, and socialized for 1500 Euro....
This is a tradition, could have been anything else, but the people decided to test the dogs in tracking, obedience, and bitework.
The German police and the military weren´t interested in own programs. They always bought young adult dogs - not too difficult to find them - for decades there were born up to 20.000 (!) German Shepherds every year in Germany. People sold agressive dogs, high drive dogs, for little money, good enough for the police...
During the seventies and the eighties the Italians and the Americans started to buy dogs for police, they paid better than the German police ( and at that point they didn´t know that much about dogs.
..)During the late eighties and the early nineties SchH became a sport people were able to make a dime.
People overseas ( private AND official ) paid much more than the German police and military.
Brokers were and are everywhere....
There are still a lot of good dogs, but it´s easier ( = more money ) to sell them anywhere else than to police....makes more money. People don´t like to sell a dog they raised, basic trained, and socialized for 1500 Euro....
by Prager on 02 February 2013 - 01:02
Susie I basically agree with your statement. Except I would like to correct this one. Germany the Schutzhund sport wasn´t invented for the police, but as a breed selection.
This is a tradition, could have been anything else, but the people decided to test the dogs in tracking, obedience, and bitework.
SchH was not developed as a sport but as a testing method. It degenerated into sport later. Testing was done in tracking , obedience and protection for stability of the dog to be bred for these disciplines which tested physical and mental aptitude to perform in these tasks and these tasks were ( and are) important to police dog performance. That was mainly done because Max V Stephanitz realized that the GSdog can not exist only on broad basis and recognition only as a herding dog and needed to be also dog used for protection and police. Schutzhund is now failing its original purpose.
Prager Hans
This is a tradition, could have been anything else, but the people decided to test the dogs in tracking, obedience, and bitework.
SchH was not developed as a sport but as a testing method. It degenerated into sport later. Testing was done in tracking , obedience and protection for stability of the dog to be bred for these disciplines which tested physical and mental aptitude to perform in these tasks and these tasks were ( and are) important to police dog performance. That was mainly done because Max V Stephanitz realized that the GSdog can not exist only on broad basis and recognition only as a herding dog and needed to be also dog used for protection and police. Schutzhund is now failing its original purpose.
Prager Hans
by Prager on 02 February 2013 - 02:02
As Susie says it has to do a lot with money . Good GSD is more valuable and thus more expensive then Malinois. GSD is more valuable because it has broader use in society then Malinois. I have great experience in this and I would say that Mali these days is obtainable for about 1/2 to 2/3 of cost of GSD of the same quality.
My another observation is that Mali will work for himself for trying to satisfy his insatiable satisfaction of quite extreme drive. Because that the Mali is more likely to work with even less experienced handler right out of box.
GSD usually requires to have relationship with his handler and tends to work for his handler. Thus most GSDs usually do not work well out of the box and require bonding period often several months. However after such bonding periods GSD may be better dog in hands of skilled handler. This long bonding period GSDs need is then detriment for use by LE. Usually higher the drive lesser the length of the bonding period.
Thus it is not about which breed is better suitable for such work but it is about these two factors which make GSD less desirable for Law enforcement then Malinois. That trend is then generalized and Malis are promoted . I would also like to say that many GSD breeders are gearing for breeding GS dogs which are more extreme and thus less versatile but more suitable for LE. I am not sure if that is good or bad. I guess if this would be general blanket result for all or for majority of GSDs then it would be bad. That is since GSD is a versatile dog first and foremost.
Prager Hans
My another observation is that Mali will work for himself for trying to satisfy his insatiable satisfaction of quite extreme drive. Because that the Mali is more likely to work with even less experienced handler right out of box.
GSD usually requires to have relationship with his handler and tends to work for his handler. Thus most GSDs usually do not work well out of the box and require bonding period often several months. However after such bonding periods GSD may be better dog in hands of skilled handler. This long bonding period GSDs need is then detriment for use by LE. Usually higher the drive lesser the length of the bonding period.
Thus it is not about which breed is better suitable for such work but it is about these two factors which make GSD less desirable for Law enforcement then Malinois. That trend is then generalized and Malis are promoted . I would also like to say that many GSD breeders are gearing for breeding GS dogs which are more extreme and thus less versatile but more suitable for LE. I am not sure if that is good or bad. I guess if this would be general blanket result for all or for majority of GSDs then it would be bad. That is since GSD is a versatile dog first and foremost.
Prager Hans
by Slamdunc on 02 February 2013 - 02:02
Susie, excellent post.
by eddyelevation on 02 February 2013 - 02:02
excellent post prager.......
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