This is a placeholder text
Group text
by LOVE THY SHEPHERD on 02 March 2013 - 04:03
You guys are all so wrong you don't have a clue. Just keep on saying ignorant
and rude things about me that's fine. A cash cow ? What exactly is that, a female
that has puppies ? First I didn't know anything about her not having papers till I
came on here and told me story. I found out from Cesna when she said there was
a signature missing or something like that on her import pedigree. I've asked her
repeatedly on here and in private emails about the AKC papers. Guess what she
finally answered that question on here today.
Ask yourself this -- If you purchased a dog and was told your getting full AKC and
went to pick up this dog (after driving the five hours in the middle of the night, at the
last minute) and when u arrived the seller gave you a folder and the dog. xrays,
pedigree was there and assumed papers were there as well. First dog to get
that's imported okay. The seller has had this same female for about one year, she
bred to two of her males. One of which is a VA male, female not registered.
You figure that since she's a supposed big show person and has VA dogs that she
should be a person to trust. She keeps saying your getting the papers and you
believe that you will. Well you've now had the dog yourself, bred her and had a
nice litter of puppies. Waiting for your papers, which you really thought you would
get. Now your litter is 8 weeks old and she tells you that the contract you have with
her is "null and void " because you came on here and complained and now know
that seller is a liar. Why would the seller have a dog for an entire year and not even
care if the dog is registered ?? This just boggles the mind of the buyer, still has no
answer. The only answer is she doesn't care if the dog is registered.! Your an honest
person and have written contracts and tell puppy buyers about possibly not getting the
AKC papers. Some buyers don't care and just say they want a well bred, happy, and
healthy puppy. They like both the parents. One guy comes over and looks at a boy
puppy and is happy to pay the $1,250 to purchase one of your puppies !! He says he
just wants a good pet for his family and he just got married and is a surprise for his
new wife. He leaves happy. You feel good, b cause you know you did a good job
with the litter, wormed them 3x and gave them their first puppy shot. Does every one
of your clients really care if they get papers ?
My dogs are not dollar signs to me. And whoever Steve is your an ass. Everything
you've stated in incorrect and I'd watch what I say in this forum if you can't back it up.
Cause I doubt if anyone of you know me, and if you did then these accusations would
not be flying. I most certainly can back up every freaking word I've said, in writing.
and rude things about me that's fine. A cash cow ? What exactly is that, a female
that has puppies ? First I didn't know anything about her not having papers till I
came on here and told me story. I found out from Cesna when she said there was
a signature missing or something like that on her import pedigree. I've asked her
repeatedly on here and in private emails about the AKC papers. Guess what she
finally answered that question on here today.
Ask yourself this -- If you purchased a dog and was told your getting full AKC and
went to pick up this dog (after driving the five hours in the middle of the night, at the
last minute) and when u arrived the seller gave you a folder and the dog. xrays,
pedigree was there and assumed papers were there as well. First dog to get
that's imported okay. The seller has had this same female for about one year, she
bred to two of her males. One of which is a VA male, female not registered.
You figure that since she's a supposed big show person and has VA dogs that she
should be a person to trust. She keeps saying your getting the papers and you
believe that you will. Well you've now had the dog yourself, bred her and had a
nice litter of puppies. Waiting for your papers, which you really thought you would
get. Now your litter is 8 weeks old and she tells you that the contract you have with
her is "null and void " because you came on here and complained and now know
that seller is a liar. Why would the seller have a dog for an entire year and not even
care if the dog is registered ?? This just boggles the mind of the buyer, still has no
answer. The only answer is she doesn't care if the dog is registered.! Your an honest
person and have written contracts and tell puppy buyers about possibly not getting the
AKC papers. Some buyers don't care and just say they want a well bred, happy, and
healthy puppy. They like both the parents. One guy comes over and looks at a boy
puppy and is happy to pay the $1,250 to purchase one of your puppies !! He says he
just wants a good pet for his family and he just got married and is a surprise for his
new wife. He leaves happy. You feel good, b cause you know you did a good job
with the litter, wormed them 3x and gave them their first puppy shot. Does every one
of your clients really care if they get papers ?
My dogs are not dollar signs to me. And whoever Steve is your an ass. Everything
you've stated in incorrect and I'd watch what I say in this forum if you can't back it up.
Cause I doubt if anyone of you know me, and if you did then these accusations would
not be flying. I most certainly can back up every freaking word I've said, in writing.
by hexe on 02 March 2013 - 04:03
Quick show of hands--how many of you out there, having read these redundant threads on the subject, are eagerly anticipating doing business with LTS in the future?
<crickets>
LTS can't seem to grasp the fact that all of this mudslinging she's been doing here has not furthered her cause even a little, because the primary thing these threads have done is to dirty her own name in the process of the attempting to do the same to the Adel Haus.
Don't get me wrong--I do think $350 for gas is on the steep side to charge for adding a route diversion to a trip that was going to be taking place regardless [I mean, c'mon, even @ $4.50/gal, that still buys nearly 78 gallons! Even if the vehicle they were in only got 10 miles/gallon, that's still almost 780 miles of travel!], but I also think it's rather odd that LTS would 'forget' her checkbook when she went to pick the dog up at the meeting spot, despite knowing that she was going to be expected to pay a delivery fee at that time. Can't help but wonder if the fee wouldn't have been more reasonable if it had been paid when the buyer took possession of the dog. I know people who will add on a 'pain in the ass' fee when someone does something like that to them--if you inconvenience them, they're going to make you pay a penalty for having done so.
And I also have an issue with the whole registration mess--yeah, I understand about the problem with the transfer document, but hell, the dog had been in the seller's hands for enough time to have whelped two litters out of her, so regardless of whether the puppy buyers wanted papers or not, the seller knew damn well that she didn't have the AKC registration to hand over with the dog. Why on earth wouldn't you get the registration taken care of BEFORE offering the dog for sale?
One thing's for sure, these threads could be gathered together, along with some others of equally shabbily-constructed business dealings, to create the PDB Tutorial of How NOT to Buy or Sell Dogs. A person can get quite the education via these debacles.
<crickets>
LTS can't seem to grasp the fact that all of this mudslinging she's been doing here has not furthered her cause even a little, because the primary thing these threads have done is to dirty her own name in the process of the attempting to do the same to the Adel Haus.
Don't get me wrong--I do think $350 for gas is on the steep side to charge for adding a route diversion to a trip that was going to be taking place regardless [I mean, c'mon, even @ $4.50/gal, that still buys nearly 78 gallons! Even if the vehicle they were in only got 10 miles/gallon, that's still almost 780 miles of travel!], but I also think it's rather odd that LTS would 'forget' her checkbook when she went to pick the dog up at the meeting spot, despite knowing that she was going to be expected to pay a delivery fee at that time. Can't help but wonder if the fee wouldn't have been more reasonable if it had been paid when the buyer took possession of the dog. I know people who will add on a 'pain in the ass' fee when someone does something like that to them--if you inconvenience them, they're going to make you pay a penalty for having done so.
And I also have an issue with the whole registration mess--yeah, I understand about the problem with the transfer document, but hell, the dog had been in the seller's hands for enough time to have whelped two litters out of her, so regardless of whether the puppy buyers wanted papers or not, the seller knew damn well that she didn't have the AKC registration to hand over with the dog. Why on earth wouldn't you get the registration taken care of BEFORE offering the dog for sale?
One thing's for sure, these threads could be gathered together, along with some others of equally shabbily-constructed business dealings, to create the PDB Tutorial of How NOT to Buy or Sell Dogs. A person can get quite the education via these debacles.
by kitkat3478 on 02 March 2013 - 04:03
People buy and sell dogs for breeding everyday. The start of this saga is about a dog that was put out there for sale with her primary function to be bred.
Both owner and seller were well aware of this fact frrom the git go. It bothers me that everyone is all over her for doing what many others do everyday.
She was not wrong to expect AKC papers if that is what she was told she was getting.
And when you see the caliber of dogs cesna deals in, I would be damned proud to own one myself.
I imagine at the time LTS bred her dog, she was still anticipating getting the registration.
There was no reason, based on cesnas website you would expect anything less than a registered dog.
So then the deal goes south because of a few hundred dollars, and I got to say LTS, you handled "very poorly"(sorry, but you did).
And I don't know either person, but to me, I think LTS needs to give the money for transport, LTS you would have had to pay more on other transports, and the dog is than yours, but, now another dilema, the litter must be registered to cesna anyway, YIKES......(lol)(round 2 maybe??)
Not evveryone does things the way 'you' like. It has always been that way and will always BE that way
Now what I really wanted to say here is this;
LTS- you need to stop saying you do not make money off of a litter of puppies, if you do it right.
There are a few of us here that have raised a litter or two of pups, also the right way, so I must beg to differ with you on not making anything.
Some of the things you consider a cost related to pups is an expense you would have for your dog anyway, unless the dog is just strictly a business expense
I do ot consider the cost of feeding pups as an added expense because the pleasure I get out of raising a litter of pups is priceless.
I do it because I enjoy it. There is nothing else my money could be better spent for.
All my dogs are part of my family, if they ever had pups or not.
I hope this does get resolved now. LTS, the ball is in your court, now
"Play Ball" would you please...
Both owner and seller were well aware of this fact frrom the git go. It bothers me that everyone is all over her for doing what many others do everyday.
She was not wrong to expect AKC papers if that is what she was told she was getting.
And when you see the caliber of dogs cesna deals in, I would be damned proud to own one myself.
I imagine at the time LTS bred her dog, she was still anticipating getting the registration.
There was no reason, based on cesnas website you would expect anything less than a registered dog.
So then the deal goes south because of a few hundred dollars, and I got to say LTS, you handled "very poorly"(sorry, but you did).
And I don't know either person, but to me, I think LTS needs to give the money for transport, LTS you would have had to pay more on other transports, and the dog is than yours, but, now another dilema, the litter must be registered to cesna anyway, YIKES......(lol)(round 2 maybe??)
Not evveryone does things the way 'you' like. It has always been that way and will always BE that way
Now what I really wanted to say here is this;
LTS- you need to stop saying you do not make money off of a litter of puppies, if you do it right.
There are a few of us here that have raised a litter or two of pups, also the right way, so I must beg to differ with you on not making anything.
Some of the things you consider a cost related to pups is an expense you would have for your dog anyway, unless the dog is just strictly a business expense
I do ot consider the cost of feeding pups as an added expense because the pleasure I get out of raising a litter of pups is priceless.
I do it because I enjoy it. There is nothing else my money could be better spent for.
All my dogs are part of my family, if they ever had pups or not.
I hope this does get resolved now. LTS, the ball is in your court, now
"Play Ball" would you please...
by LOVE THY SHEPHERD on 02 March 2013 - 05:03
Kitkat, I believe that of everyone on here that's commented your the only one that's
even come close to the truth. The problem is not the money, me owing for gas.
It's that she lied to me. and every word she's said on here as well. She never
registered her and never had papers to give me. She knew this all along and still
put Farah up for sale. She saw me coming. Up until the time she said stuff on here
about the missing signature, I believed she had the AKC papers and I was getting them
when I paid for the gas. By the way the last person that mentioned the travel deal, SHE
did not go one bit out of her way, till she got lost. I am the one that had to wait 2 hrs.
for her. Sorry lost track. Anyway,
Then I started doing my own detective work and contacted the person that actually
transported the dog for her. I had waited long enough about the papers and contacted
AKC. I found out she never even registered her and I was soooo mad. I knew then that
she was scamming me and was a big fat liar ! She has everyone on her side b cause
she shows dogs. whoooo I will admit I didn't do this gracefully, but wanted people to
know that in my case she dealt me wrong. I will not return Farah after 5 months she's
bonded with me and my daughter and one of my other female dogs. You guys are
saying yeahh return her. I guess everyone but me cares about the dogs. ( but you kitkat)
seem to care. Do u guys really just throw dogs around for a dollar or two and can get rid
of them just like that ? I can't. I took some pics. of Farah and Piper playing in the snow
the other day chasing each other and having a blast. Just now typing these words, puts a
big smile on my face as I love my dogs. In the end of all this, I will get the papers and will
do it on my own. As the seller doesn't care and never did plan to get them, otherwise it
would have been done a long time ago.!
even come close to the truth. The problem is not the money, me owing for gas.
It's that she lied to me. and every word she's said on here as well. She never
registered her and never had papers to give me. She knew this all along and still
put Farah up for sale. She saw me coming. Up until the time she said stuff on here
about the missing signature, I believed she had the AKC papers and I was getting them
when I paid for the gas. By the way the last person that mentioned the travel deal, SHE
did not go one bit out of her way, till she got lost. I am the one that had to wait 2 hrs.
for her. Sorry lost track. Anyway,
Then I started doing my own detective work and contacted the person that actually
transported the dog for her. I had waited long enough about the papers and contacted
AKC. I found out she never even registered her and I was soooo mad. I knew then that
she was scamming me and was a big fat liar ! She has everyone on her side b cause
she shows dogs. whoooo I will admit I didn't do this gracefully, but wanted people to
know that in my case she dealt me wrong. I will not return Farah after 5 months she's
bonded with me and my daughter and one of my other female dogs. You guys are
saying yeahh return her. I guess everyone but me cares about the dogs. ( but you kitkat)
seem to care. Do u guys really just throw dogs around for a dollar or two and can get rid
of them just like that ? I can't. I took some pics. of Farah and Piper playing in the snow
the other day chasing each other and having a blast. Just now typing these words, puts a
big smile on my face as I love my dogs. In the end of all this, I will get the papers and will
do it on my own. As the seller doesn't care and never did plan to get them, otherwise it
would have been done a long time ago.!
by khlewis on 02 March 2013 - 05:03
This is all insane. Cesna, $350 seems really expensive for gas when you were already making the trip. LTS, after doing a simple search for Farah on the AKC website, you can see that she is registered with the following information:
AKC No.: DN35644001
Name: Farah Vom Konigsadler
Please call them to confirm and put an end to this mess.
AKC No.: DN35644001
Name: Farah Vom Konigsadler
Please call them to confirm and put an end to this mess.
by zigzag on 02 March 2013 - 11:03
Oh so now i'm an ass? Why because i'm right.I have purchased a few dogs(pups) and only once have i had a problem with a breeder and it;s my fault for not doing more research.Well at least I don't buy a dog and breed her as soon as she comes in heat and in your case must of been with in a month.Last female I purchased she was an import titled (show and schh) and I had her for over a year before I found a match with a few breeders help and suggestions.But YOU are so good you knew right off great match.Can you tell me why you think the match was perfect? Is it because your male hips and elbows aren't cert.?Is it because you have popped out pups for the past 20 yrs? Here is the tough question. Did you see $$ signs? You really amuse me by saying other people are contacting you about papers from Cesna's litter.How do they know you have Farrar? And your story about the gentleman buying s pup didn't mind paying the price he just wanted a pup for his family. That tells me he really didn't know much about shepherds and i'm guessing you told him what he wanted to hear.And you call ME an ass Take a long look in the mirror.
Steve
Steve
by Gustav on 02 March 2013 - 12:03
Both parties are damaged goods as a result of this....smh!
by Cesna on 02 March 2013 - 18:03
This is all insane..
The reason that there is a clause in my contract (again, drafted by an attorney) is to avoid situations like this where people just want to be mad about something and bring it to the public. It is designed to make adults, be and act like adults, keeping things private so that everything can be worked out in a manner that is a win/win situation for everyone involved. When it is worked out, everyone is happy and is able to move on with a good experience...
At this point, the whole principle is for Donna to adhere to the contract, and if she has truly been involved as a breeder for 20 years, she would realize this. This is no longer about the transport money. Donna needs to realize, that she signed a purchase contract and it needs to be fulfilled. I guarantee that she has people pay for transport on her puppies, regardless of the manner of the shipping. I can guarantee that it would have been a different outcome had Donna not come to the boards complaining... She can complain all she wants, but at this point because of all of her mud-slinging, I am not going to back down. I have read posts over the years and have never seen someone as nasty as Donna...
Yes, Farah was sold with full AKC registration, because you cannot put limited registration on a dog imported from Germany with the SV Annentafel. Germany had all of the information, and I have every email from Sabine with the events that transpired... I got the paperwork at the end of July, as my handlers from Germany always had the SV Annentafel because of the shows we attended... When we met in July, I was given the paperwork and sent it over for the Bescheinigung, along with 3 other Annentafels for AKC registration. I didn't throw a fit and complain to my handlers because I trust them and knew the paperwork would get done. And alas...it has!
Yes, absolutely, I will give Donna her money back in exchange for Farah.. This is not a ploy or a game. The dog had a great home with me, and I will give it to her again.
When I am placing puppies for $1000-1500 out of top VA and V males out of top V and VA females... I am not hiding anything and want everyone to have the chance to have a super nice puppy regardless of their income... This is the price most breeders are asking from untitled, unshown, uncertified dogs... If anyone has been to my home, where all of my dogs reside, they can see the great life my dogs live.. And yes, Farah was one of those dogs... She was not a money machine.. She was shown and promoted over and over...and all of this costs a lot of money..but I do not complain because I am passionate about the German Shepherd Dog...
And...here we are... The AKC papers are waiting on Donna... Period.
The reason that there is a clause in my contract (again, drafted by an attorney) is to avoid situations like this where people just want to be mad about something and bring it to the public. It is designed to make adults, be and act like adults, keeping things private so that everything can be worked out in a manner that is a win/win situation for everyone involved. When it is worked out, everyone is happy and is able to move on with a good experience...
At this point, the whole principle is for Donna to adhere to the contract, and if she has truly been involved as a breeder for 20 years, she would realize this. This is no longer about the transport money. Donna needs to realize, that she signed a purchase contract and it needs to be fulfilled. I guarantee that she has people pay for transport on her puppies, regardless of the manner of the shipping. I can guarantee that it would have been a different outcome had Donna not come to the boards complaining... She can complain all she wants, but at this point because of all of her mud-slinging, I am not going to back down. I have read posts over the years and have never seen someone as nasty as Donna...
Yes, Farah was sold with full AKC registration, because you cannot put limited registration on a dog imported from Germany with the SV Annentafel. Germany had all of the information, and I have every email from Sabine with the events that transpired... I got the paperwork at the end of July, as my handlers from Germany always had the SV Annentafel because of the shows we attended... When we met in July, I was given the paperwork and sent it over for the Bescheinigung, along with 3 other Annentafels for AKC registration. I didn't throw a fit and complain to my handlers because I trust them and knew the paperwork would get done. And alas...it has!
Yes, absolutely, I will give Donna her money back in exchange for Farah.. This is not a ploy or a game. The dog had a great home with me, and I will give it to her again.
When I am placing puppies for $1000-1500 out of top VA and V males out of top V and VA females... I am not hiding anything and want everyone to have the chance to have a super nice puppy regardless of their income... This is the price most breeders are asking from untitled, unshown, uncertified dogs... If anyone has been to my home, where all of my dogs reside, they can see the great life my dogs live.. And yes, Farah was one of those dogs... She was not a money machine.. She was shown and promoted over and over...and all of this costs a lot of money..but I do not complain because I am passionate about the German Shepherd Dog...
And...here we are... The AKC papers are waiting on Donna... Period.
by kitkat3478 on 02 March 2013 - 21:03
Cesna- I do get that (the reason for that clause).
Your dogs are very nice and do have very nice pedigrees. I also agree that price is a steal considering what most showline breeders charge.
As I said earlier, I have sold dogs and had people waiting on, and "trusting" me they were coming .
Once I checked out your website,I had no doubt the papers for Farah were out there somewhere.
Sorry about my remark about having that clause in your contract.
Now, LTS- you have pups ready to go, Cesna stated they are waiting for you , I HIGHLY doubt she will not give them to you now.
If you do not trust her, use paypal or a credit card to make the payment.
They guarantee you get what you are paying for, supposidly.
I do suggest LTS that you cough this up to a learning experience, (you too cesna) and move on with your lives.
I also suggest you "talk" now over the litter registration as I know for a fact, that litter LTS has now, HAS GOT TO BE registered to cesna, as the ownership has not been officially transfered UNTIL the papers are transferred through AKC.
I wish you both well.
Your dogs are very nice and do have very nice pedigrees. I also agree that price is a steal considering what most showline breeders charge.
As I said earlier, I have sold dogs and had people waiting on, and "trusting" me they were coming .
Once I checked out your website,I had no doubt the papers for Farah were out there somewhere.
Sorry about my remark about having that clause in your contract.
Now, LTS- you have pups ready to go, Cesna stated they are waiting for you , I HIGHLY doubt she will not give them to you now.
If you do not trust her, use paypal or a credit card to make the payment.
They guarantee you get what you are paying for, supposidly.
I do suggest LTS that you cough this up to a learning experience, (you too cesna) and move on with your lives.
I also suggest you "talk" now over the litter registration as I know for a fact, that litter LTS has now, HAS GOT TO BE registered to cesna, as the ownership has not been officially transfered UNTIL the papers are transferred through AKC.
I wish you both well.
by rtdmmcintyre on 02 March 2013 - 21:03
Do I know Cesna? no. But I do know the ring of truth. I believe Cesna. LTS's statements never have the ring of truth. I have been in business for many years and I have seen way to many scam artists pass by. When ever any questions what they say their response is usually just like hers. Instead of explaining she gets mad and attacks anyone who doesn't automatically see things their way. Do you also notice that when statements stating that the dog is registered, she ignores that fact and just continues to attack? Doesn't actions like that kind of show what her real motive is? Her motive is simply to defame and try to get something for less then agreed upon.
Cesna I truly am sorry you are going through this. On this board I have seen several honest hearted breeders who are trying to produce good quality dogs get needlessly attacked. some of the posters on this thread have been challenged also. They proceed and continue on holding their head high. Don't let one bad customer deter you from doing what you love. If someone attacked the breeder that I use and highly respect, I would probably take it more personally then she would. And she would probably get pissed off at me for responding. But I personally have a hard time seeing people unjustly attacked and remaining silent, especially if they are people whom I respect. Cesna hold your head up high and continue on.
Cesna I truly am sorry you are going through this. On this board I have seen several honest hearted breeders who are trying to produce good quality dogs get needlessly attacked. some of the posters on this thread have been challenged also. They proceed and continue on holding their head high. Don't let one bad customer deter you from doing what you love. If someone attacked the breeder that I use and highly respect, I would probably take it more personally then she would. And she would probably get pissed off at me for responding. But I personally have a hard time seeing people unjustly attacked and remaining silent, especially if they are people whom I respect. Cesna hold your head up high and continue on.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
