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by Prager on 02 May 2013 - 18:05
Yes, it is.
by Prager on 02 May 2013 - 18:05
Starrchar for sake of your dogs vote with your dollar. That is the voice you are giving to dogs. If nobody buys dogs from bad breeders, then they will cease to exist. What causes puppy mills and their and improper or abusive care for dogs to exist are people who buy dogs from them. There are plenty regulations against cruelty against animals and results are....? Animals rights activists and animal protection groups of all kind are with help of useful idiots and sickening TV ads transmitted during dinner time especially during Christmas, generating healthy income for them self with token help to animals. SV is no exception. I am sure someone can get here into details why over reaching and over controlling SV is not so great. I for once do not have energy for that.
by kitkat3478 on 02 May 2013 - 18:05
What is "the alternative"? Continental Kennel Cluc !
The AKC is a purebred dog registry. They keep records.
I myself do not thiink they charge to much for what they do.
People need to take responsibility for their own actions, or inactions.
When I have pups, some of the people that contact me are, to put it mildly; so goddamn stupid, I can almost not believe it.
I know of people that have had AKC inspections.
Justt because they register dogs, does not mean the dogs are any betterr than those not AKC'd.
If you don't want to buy an inbred dog, pay the stinkin $13 for a research pedigree BEFORE you buy a dog.
There are more and more sources these days to research BEFORE you buy.
Animal cruelty and abuse is a problem that affects all of us.
We,Us,You and Me have more of an ethical duty to do something about it than does the AKC.
Half the time, the towns and counties we live in do not think cruelty investigators are needed within the community, so they have no budget for it.
WE are obligated to the animals we buy, and produce.
The Town Clerk that records birth certificates is not accountable for what they keep track of either.
The AKC is a purebred dog registry. They keep records.
I myself do not thiink they charge to much for what they do.
People need to take responsibility for their own actions, or inactions.
When I have pups, some of the people that contact me are, to put it mildly; so goddamn stupid, I can almost not believe it.
I know of people that have had AKC inspections.
Justt because they register dogs, does not mean the dogs are any betterr than those not AKC'd.
If you don't want to buy an inbred dog, pay the stinkin $13 for a research pedigree BEFORE you buy a dog.
There are more and more sources these days to research BEFORE you buy.
Animal cruelty and abuse is a problem that affects all of us.
We,Us,You and Me have more of an ethical duty to do something about it than does the AKC.
Half the time, the towns and counties we live in do not think cruelty investigators are needed within the community, so they have no budget for it.
WE are obligated to the animals we buy, and produce.
The Town Clerk that records birth certificates is not accountable for what they keep track of either.
by Abby Normal on 03 May 2013 - 08:05
Char I agree with you 100%. We have been lobbying our UK KC to require passing health grades in order to register puppies for some time. Of course it falls on deaf ears because of the loss of revenue they would suffer. Of cousre if personal responsibility were all it took we wouldn't need any laws, rules or guidelines for anything - but hey we already did that argument to death on another thread. In any case it wouldn't be a law, it would be a 'choice'. If you want AKC/KC registration, your dogs would need to have passing health grades, otherwise don't breed your dog if you want to registered puppies - simples. If you want to breed your dog anyway even if it is unhealthy you do it without the backing of the KC, BUT you can't kid the puppy buyer that they are getting a 'top quality' puppy ny simply saying its KC registered. Strangely, not all breeders are honest and upfront with their puppy buyers and don't take personal responsibility either!
Hans, the inevitable 'Zieg Heil' you throw out in every debate is really getting old. You seem to miss the point that this would be a benefit for the dogs and the breed generally.
Hans, the inevitable 'Zieg Heil' you throw out in every debate is really getting old. You seem to miss the point that this would be a benefit for the dogs and the breed generally.
by EliDog on 03 May 2013 - 09:05
If you look for enough things sooner or later you're going to find something. When is enough enough? Where do we draw line between in what should be common sense and personal responsibility and an outside entity dictating what we can and cannot do and how it should be done?
Keith
Keith
by starrchar on 03 May 2013 - 10:05
Prager, We will just have to agree to disagree....
Just curious to know if anyone thinks the SV has served any purpose.
by starrchar on 03 May 2013 - 11:05
Yes, Abby, you and I do agree 100%, but your way of making a point is much better than mine!
,
,
by Prager on 03 May 2013 - 11:05
Abby Normal if you would chop some ones hand off if their dog is not in top shape to be bred, then that would also be good for dogs.
What is getting old is people like you who think that everything needs to be regulated, controlled and governed or someone needs to be in business to give permission to masses to fart. Yes it invokes in me certain associations with dictatorial socialist regimes. I can not help it if such statements have such effect on me. They are just too familiar to me and too unpleasant to ignore. After all I have been around to see where such attitude leads. Ideas of control expressed here give me conditioned response and free associations of regimes past and fortunately gone.
Road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Listen we already have all the laws against animal cruelty needed. And the results? Well you see them. And you want more laws and regulations. As they say: Only an crazy person is doing the same thing over and over and expects different results. Let's try something new. Let's educate, let's be responsible our selves, lets advocate personal responsibility.
I have some ideas how to stop cruelty and dumping of unwanted dogs which would stop this crap dead in the tracks but they are not PC touchy feely BS so they may be opposed by people who are for more regulations instead. It would also put these "Humane" organizations out of business and thus there would be a lot of opposition to that.
Prager Hans
What is getting old is people like you who think that everything needs to be regulated, controlled and governed or someone needs to be in business to give permission to masses to fart. Yes it invokes in me certain associations with dictatorial socialist regimes. I can not help it if such statements have such effect on me. They are just too familiar to me and too unpleasant to ignore. After all I have been around to see where such attitude leads. Ideas of control expressed here give me conditioned response and free associations of regimes past and fortunately gone.
Road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Listen we already have all the laws against animal cruelty needed. And the results? Well you see them. And you want more laws and regulations. As they say: Only an crazy person is doing the same thing over and over and expects different results. Let's try something new. Let's educate, let's be responsible our selves, lets advocate personal responsibility.
I have some ideas how to stop cruelty and dumping of unwanted dogs which would stop this crap dead in the tracks but they are not PC touchy feely BS so they may be opposed by people who are for more regulations instead. It would also put these "Humane" organizations out of business and thus there would be a lot of opposition to that.
Prager Hans
by NordicCry on 03 May 2013 - 12:05
If you've truly exhausted every last effort to try and educate the general public about ethical breeding practices, and you still find your community would rather buy the doggy in the window, then it's time to look into legislating breeders.
The average American -including dog lovers- have no clue what an ethical breeder even is. Let alone that they need to search for one when puppy shopping.
Ask your coworkers, or your next door neighbor, what they think of puppy millers and backyard breeders. Those terms might make sense to you, but most people have never heard them before.
If there's to be legislation at all it should be started with educational programs for your community. These programs should include subjects such as the importance of health testing, how an animals genetics influence it's behavior, and introductions to different dog sports as well as puppymill/byb vs. professional.
Programs like these have worked in a number of northern states and demand for rescue dogs has gone up, while demand for byb/puppy mill puppies has gone down. So much so that rescues and shelters must import dogs from other states to keep up with demand.
The only thing that the today shows content will accomplish is that it will continue to keep joe public in the dark. The masses will continue to think those snobbish show/sport breeders are just awful, and they are right to buy from the local designer mutt breeder who just loves his little poodle mixes so much. Or to snatch up the cutest pup from the pet shop.
If, and only if, your community continues to support unethical breeding practices after the general public knows better, then it's time to say your community can't be trusted and it's time to legislate. Until then it's time to educate.
The average American -including dog lovers- have no clue what an ethical breeder even is. Let alone that they need to search for one when puppy shopping.
Ask your coworkers, or your next door neighbor, what they think of puppy millers and backyard breeders. Those terms might make sense to you, but most people have never heard them before.
If there's to be legislation at all it should be started with educational programs for your community. These programs should include subjects such as the importance of health testing, how an animals genetics influence it's behavior, and introductions to different dog sports as well as puppymill/byb vs. professional.
Programs like these have worked in a number of northern states and demand for rescue dogs has gone up, while demand for byb/puppy mill puppies has gone down. So much so that rescues and shelters must import dogs from other states to keep up with demand.
The only thing that the today shows content will accomplish is that it will continue to keep joe public in the dark. The masses will continue to think those snobbish show/sport breeders are just awful, and they are right to buy from the local designer mutt breeder who just loves his little poodle mixes so much. Or to snatch up the cutest pup from the pet shop.
If, and only if, your community continues to support unethical breeding practices after the general public knows better, then it's time to say your community can't be trusted and it's time to legislate. Until then it's time to educate.
by Hundmutter on 03 May 2013 - 13:05
Well yes we already have Laws (both sides of the Pond); and yes
it would help if those laws were better 'policed'; and if people were
better educated. The trouble is that 'governmental authorities' and
law enforcement services are too busy and/or won't prioritise in the
ways that would make those laws work more efficiently.
I think what is being increasingly asked for (and I'm talking about
ordinary, responsible dog owners here, not PETA or the 'humane'
organisations, when I say this) is for the national Kennel Clubs, eg
AKC and our UK KCs [inc English, Scottish, Welsh & Northern
Irish], plus some of the larger local / regional / breed or activity
based Clubs, to support an ethos which says "Getting money
for keeping a Register of dogs, and running Shows/Trials, or
whatever, is all very well but profit should cease to be the main
raison d'etre of our existence. We should concentrate more on
making Rules for the guidance of member breeders and owners which
will help reduce the numbers of dogs with inheritable diseases, & incidents
of neglect & bad management." As Abby says, it is very simple:
If you want to boast the fact that your dogs are properly registered,
have the various supporting facilities that membership can bring,
and can enter every competition etc, then be prepared to not just
pay a fee for that, but pay 'in kind' too, look after them and their
health properly. The very fact that the Clubs stepped their game
up to such a point would, in itself, serve to put more education into
the dog game publicly. It would never be a total answer, but it
could help. Without 'taking anyones freedoms away' !
it would help if those laws were better 'policed'; and if people were
better educated. The trouble is that 'governmental authorities' and
law enforcement services are too busy and/or won't prioritise in the
ways that would make those laws work more efficiently.
I think what is being increasingly asked for (and I'm talking about
ordinary, responsible dog owners here, not PETA or the 'humane'
organisations, when I say this) is for the national Kennel Clubs, eg
AKC and our UK KCs [inc English, Scottish, Welsh & Northern
Irish], plus some of the larger local / regional / breed or activity
based Clubs, to support an ethos which says "Getting money
for keeping a Register of dogs, and running Shows/Trials, or
whatever, is all very well but profit should cease to be the main
raison d'etre of our existence. We should concentrate more on
making Rules for the guidance of member breeders and owners which
will help reduce the numbers of dogs with inheritable diseases, & incidents
of neglect & bad management." As Abby says, it is very simple:
If you want to boast the fact that your dogs are properly registered,
have the various supporting facilities that membership can bring,
and can enter every competition etc, then be prepared to not just
pay a fee for that, but pay 'in kind' too, look after them and their
health properly. The very fact that the Clubs stepped their game
up to such a point would, in itself, serve to put more education into
the dog game publicly. It would never be a total answer, but it
could help. Without 'taking anyones freedoms away' !
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