Karma is a Bitch.... - Page 5

Freedom has a price.

There is no end to the question "what should be reproduced". Who decides? One mans trash is another's' treasure. As a general rule cross breeds are healthier then pure breeds of any animal. Someone has to have the final decision. Who? You? I don't think so. Surely not me. Where is the line drawn? What is cruel? What is just? Too much grey area. There will never be a law or laws that can effectively mandate right and wrong. All of the laws that we have about animal welfare are trying to legislate morality, and it will not work. Here is one example. Say you have a litter of 10 puppies.  5 of them have major problems that will cause big problem through out their lives. Do you put them down? Find them pet homes? How are they to be put down? Hundreds of dollars at the vet or shot in the woods? What if you can't find suitable homes for them and what if there is not enough resources to care for them. What is right and what is wrong.

Should we spay or neuter unhealthy people? Or how about the unproductive ones? Where does it end? The answer is, it does not. We need to put an end to the needless laws and end over reaching government.















 

Oh and there is one more scary thought. Who decide on what should be in the legislation. Usually these are pushed be extremist radical animal activist groups in darkness of the night pressuring politicians into passing these often ridiculous laws under threat. They say...:"  But we have to do what ever we can for the doggies are you against that?" SOUNDS FAMILIAR?  And  these legislation are passed  since normal people do not get involved in radical agendas. They have to make living. From business point of view I do not care. It can only benefit me. I'll do what ever it takes to comply with the law and number of law obeying breeders is going to diminish and demand will increase.   Yes  these laws will eliminate small breeders and low income buyers and open black market production under the radars of gov regulators. There will be demand and thus price of the pups will also increase. Drugs are illegal and you can get them too.
 Do you know that some of the shipping charges for a pup from Europe to US are $800+ dollars and for adult they may reach $1500 where it was 1/2 of it few years ago. Who can afford that? 
 What causes that? It is caused by these Draconian laws pushed on airlines and subsequently  you and you  and you too. These are ON  PURPOSE   expensive regulations.
Or if I ship to Canada regulations are so ridiculous that only  a hand full of major airports can fulfill them. 4 airports from gigantic Canada.  People are driving sometimes thousand or more miles to get their dog. And I am not going to even go into size of the crates where radical animal right groups pushed that the dogs must be shipped in these oversized crates where they are much more comfortable in smaller one. Ask Temple Grandin.
Thanks to these regulations it costs to ship a dog one way more then to fly a person round trip!!!  These are the results of pushing these  agendas of animal   radical groups into the law. They know that they can not forbid you to have dog ( that is what they really want) , thus they do it this way.
Or
Did you see some of the requirements for kennels which are being pushed through? Standards same as animal laboratories in research center. Kennels must be sterile. Shit must be picked up immediately or you lose a license! 24/365 personal supervision. 24/ 365 access by animal enforcement.  Temp in the kennel between 78 *F and 84*F 24/7/365.  They tell you how to build a nursery and kennel and from what materials. First for bigger breeders and then small ones like you here.  Such facility  for 6-12 dogs would cost $300 000 PLUS(!!!).  Yes those are the proposed legislation. Not possible you say ?  Then  what about putting reputable kennels who existed for decades out of business in LA county by passing mandatory spay / neuter to ALL dogs!!!  Who woke up in the morning and said that everybody must get his dog's gonads cut off. Yeah there are exceptions for $200 per year per dog. 
Or  it may end up like what happened to someone I know  in Germany whose pup was confiscated in a rest stop by government jackbooted thugs with guns because it pooped in the crate. 
NO BS. Perfectly healthy pup was pronounced sick and confiscated with his crate on a freeway. 
THAT IS WHAT I  WORRY ABOUT.  Your intentions sound noble but as I said road to hell is paved with good intentions. 
Stuff this in your pipe and smoke it. 
Now I wonder who is going to give me thumbs down. 
But don't let me start....
Prager Hans
 

Hans, it's refreshing to see there are people with the balls to speak the truth. Any thumbs down you may get will probably from the same people who hate me. And you know what? Let them hate those of us who are not going to let them shut the truth up. I'm despised by people who don't want to have the sparkle taken out of their star or the bubble containing the fantasy world they live in burst.
By all means, if you, Hans, are trying to get people to see the path these regulations are taking this country down, there will be haters.

Joanro I always try my best to call spade - spade. There is nothing worse then person whom is liked by  everybody. 
Here is a quote:
Everybody in America is soft, and hates conflict. The cure for this, both in politics and social life, is the same - hardihood. Give them raw truth.
John Jay Chapman 
 

Hans I see propaganda in some of your posts.  Of course the personal effects on your pocket that you are worried about are coming through, but your portrayal of dark forces at work somewhat obsessive.  In the country that you have chosen to reside in, it  is very clear who 'decides' what should be in the legislation, how it is implemented and it seems to work fairly well,  and they don't believe it or not wear jackboots, even though that is how you see it. That is your limitation, not theirs.  No reputable breeders existing for decades were put out of business when the spay neuter laws were introduced in LA county, because professional breeders were exempt from the outset, so that was a scaremongering statement that actually had no basis in truth. It might well have put a lot of puppy mills out of business though.  I will say  that I don't really know how I feel about mandatory spay/neuter laws.

Regarding the cost of shipping a puppy, I have seen so many people get burnt I wonder why they would even do it when they can buy fantastic pups in their own countries.  But you are suggesting another hidden agenda for these charges. We are all having to pay more for everything.    Personally, I would like to see pregnant dogs prevented from being shipped.

Perhaps you could post a link to the data for the requirements for kennel structure that you are referring to. I am sure many here who may be affected would like to know so that they can protest against it if your information is accurate, and the requirements unrealistic.

The AKC is a registry, plain and simple. At one time it was administered by dog people who were down in the trenches with other dog people; now it is run for profit by people who may never have owned a dog. The burden of placing any restrictions on which dogs can and can't be bred is the responsibility of each parent breed club. It's the responsibility of the breeder to have ethics to do the right thing. There would be no need for the HSUS et al and we would not have these restrictive nanny laws telling us how to raise and keep our dogs IF breeding dogs had remained a hobby as intended and not morphed into a business opportunity.

I've talked here several times about the 161  Malamutes that were finally rescued from the worse living conditions many had ever seen. The details were horrific. Many Mal breeders knew about the situation, most turned a blind eye - they minded their own business. It took a pet buyer to report it to the local humane society who took over and got all those dogs out. Had the breed club and its members done the right thing this still would have happened but it could have been stopped 5 years earlier when there were ONLY 70 dogs instead of 161. The rescue was too big a job for the local humane society, they HAD to call in the HSUS.

The HSUS and the ASPCA are powerful today because some dog breeders didn't provide the most basic care for their dogs; they failed to feed them, provide safe and sanitary living conditions, and bred the snot out of their bitches; still their peers failed to hold them responsible - they minded their own business. Now the entire fancy has to suffer. Don't blame the AR wingnuts  or the the HSUS  or the ASPCA for where we are today. They saw an opportunity and took advantage, dog breeders provided that opportunity and still do.

I have to say I agree with Hans. Propaganda is reality.
I was born here in the US and have to say, "our legislators SUCK".
They come out campaigning on what they know you want to hear, once voted in, they do as they please.
I really don't want NO ONE telling me what I can do with my dogs.
But than ,my dogs are treated better than a lot of kids in this country.
There are ample laws already on the books regarding animal care. I'd rather be able to follow "MY" heart, than ANY law regarding animal care.
I mean really, have you ever read the regulations spelled out in the US Dept of Agriculture and Markets laws regarding animal care.
The laws already in place need to be inforced.
For some reason, in this country, it is not as much of a crime to abuse, children, animals and old people, as it is to cheat the government.
Start prosecuting the violators, and give them penalties they actually feel!

Kitkat, all dogs laws are legislated by non-dog people who take their lead from the AR lobbyists who are providing them with monetary support. In the big picture, breeding dogs is a drop in the ocean of other issues that plaque this country.  Dogs laws are considered the flea on the elephant's ball - annoying but not ever going to have a big impact on the general public so there will be little in the line of expert testimony or sensible investigation done before dog laws are legislated at a local or a national level. The HSUS and ASPCA are in charge now.  Dog breeders are a special interest group without, as far as  know, much support outside of our own family.

Abby, I too would like to see a ban on shipping pg bitches. Since the price of shipping dogs doesn't negatively effect most of the breeders I know it a non-issue to me.

Blitzen you said

" Since the price of shipping dogs doesn't negatively effect most of the breeders I know it a non-issue to me."

Either you do not know anyone who imports or most of them have more money then they want.

If you have a bitch that get stressed easily, she should not be shipped pregnant but, better then that she should not have been bred.