2013 AWDF trial Ivan/Ebor protection - Page 5

Here is another Mal at about the same point as the first screen shot of Ebor, notice the sleeve elevation difference between the two.   This is also a much slower Mal. 

Taken from http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ecurGgvBI2M @ 7:30.

Msheplak  .. thanks for the screen shots .. doesn't change the outcome for Ebor or Ivan but it does show what happened and why.  I hope to get a better video to look at as the one Ivan had is not high definition and I think this is where you got the screen shots.  Ebor was not champion that day but he was a great dog.

Thomas I can not say where the footage from Marcus' video came from. Many times he, like other helpers have someone they know video for them to check their work. Perhaps this, but that is only speculation. I know that SHELLSHOT would have the entire trial on disk for purchase and everything there will be top quality. For myself I really couldn't care less. It's not like everyone is ever going to agree anyway. Things happen in every trial. It sucks when it happens too you, but it's over and you move on.

That's the unfortunate thing about being a helper. No one seems to remember all the other dogs that were caught without issue. They never forget the one that had issues. Whether it was the helpers fault or the dogs. They always blame the helper.

As for Ebor he seems like a very nice dog, and I don't think anyone thinks any different. I'm sure we'll be seeing a lot more of him in the future.

When this thread started Ebor was the goat and couldn't grab a sleeve .. now the evidence is saying that Ebor got the goob and that he was actually the king that day at the 2013 AWDF Championship.  Progress has been made for Ebor and Ivan .. Ebor is the king, long live Ebor!!  A shame he did not get his crown.  Ebor is a fast dog and hard to catch but that is what the helper signed up for and there were other fast dogs that day.  We can't change history but we can write it correctly.

BOOBOO what thread have you been reading. No where in this thread did anyone say anything about Ebor not being a good dog. Nor did anyone say he couldn't grab the sleeve. Without even seeing the video anyone who knows the rules would know that the dog would have had to grip the sleeve and come off. Because if he hadn't originally gripped the sleeve on the escape it would have been DQ'd and not allowed to continue.

Does your mind really see things this way or do you just like trying to twist EVERYTHING out of context?

No .. what I see is that a lot of people denied there was a problem in the helper work that day for Ebor's work and said Ebor missed his grip through no fault of the helper.  Sorry that I don't agree with the " you must believe us because we say so company" but their track record is not very good.  Despite the bashing Thomas took (as well as myself) for suggesting that perhaps the helper work was at fault in Ebor's case it appears the truth is that the helper work was faulty and Ebor missed a clean solid grip through no fault of his own.  Had he got a DQ for missing a bad presentation by the helper well that would have been the icing on the cake wouldn't it.   I don't get why all of those deniers of the obvious truth felt the need or the right to deny what actually happened when it was obvious to someone as unfit to comment as I was told I was??  Denying the truth doesn't make it go away.  Would it really hurt to say "the helper got wrong footed and screwed up the presentation, sorry Ivan"??
I believe Kevin Nance placed the blame squarely on Ebor's performance and swore there was nothing wrong with the presentation Ebor got. 

Unfortunately for Ivan, the dog came fast but never left his feet until he was nearly under Marcus.

Very awkward but in slow frame you can see Marcus's sleeve presentation above his waist and the dog "launching" from beneath.

Bad luck,

Kevin Nance

The facts indicate otherwise however. 

Arguing of who's fault it was that Ebor missed the grip is kind of pointless, it is what it is. Its like saying because Brongo (Frans) missed 2 articles, the track layer is at fault for not placing them correctly. Things happen, no day is like the other. Its sportmanship to shake it off and say that today you didnt catch the biggest fish. JMO

But we can analyze the sequence and use this for further teaching newer folks.

To me it looked like Ebor came in very straight. Most dogs deviate a bit to either the sleeve or the other arm. Makes for great catches and great pictures. For the very straight dogs, the helper has to move within a split second to not jam the dog. Easier said then done. And maybe thats why Marcus was presenting the sleeve lower, to give a definite target and give the dog a chance to commit to one site. As Ebor continued straight, he had to move as to not jam him, which could have hurt both badly. But this is just my assumption. There is most likely no video as seen from the handlers few to support this thesis.

The presentation was bad and there is no justification for it other than the helper made a bad catch.  Don't blame it on Ebor or say it didn't happen.  The helper made a whole bunch of great catches and was excellent in many other cases but in this case he was not where he was supposed to be and pulled the sleeve up and away from the Ebor denying him a fair chance to bite and grip the sleeve.  Perhaps it is easier to blame the dog than the helper but that is not what happened.  A bad break for Ebor and Ivan but not a fault on their part. 

Bubba, out of curiosity, did you ever work on a trial as a helper for top competition dogs, did you ever try to catch one dog after the other, every one different?
Shit happens, in life and in sport, but to blame a helper is bad sportsmanship.

Bet this helper is going to be in a real hurry to work a National Event again.