will american breeders ever start breeding for a more well rounded GSD? - Page 4

Gustave; Thank you for the balance-ness of your posting. I am becoming afraid that balance is not needed to post or start a thread. I think about the directions of any post I respond to. I am careful to write in a manner which either will add clarity to a subject,[like you , gustave]  challange the CW, or point out the humor in someone misconception. I have a theory about Eddy. He did not post for a long period of time, and now he is back with the same non-sence. My theory is Eddy was being punished by his mommy for bad grades in junior high school. She took away eddy's key board privledges until his marks came up. Congrats eddy! good luck in 8th grade!

Eddy has been messing with us ever since he first signed on here. Don't take my word for it, read all of his past posts. He's a troll. Yes he makes me angry, he's a waste of time and bandwidth. I sign on here to try to learn about the breed, not to amuse Eddy. Good luck trying to help him "get it", it's not going to happen but it will make him feel loved.

Thanks, Meilssa. If I lived closer, I would try to get my dog into the program.

having a different opinion or just having an opinion suddenly makes someone a troll.

someone can't inquire or ask questions.........its like it becomes a personal attack.......sad indeed.

Have  a nice day, Eddy.

Not to be rude, but I disagree with your last statement Eddy.
I, for example, have asked plenty of questions, and I don't think I've ever had a personal attack directed my way. I've been learning about the GSD for the past, oh I don't know, 2 months, and while I do already have opinions that are fairly solid, I don't mind discussing, challenging, and being challenged (though a topic where that's happened hasn't come up yet). If a person isn't trying to better  his own dogs, the dogs breed, or himself in better understanding dogs, then I'm not sure I see the point.
I find this particular topic interesting, since I'm an American and all that and plan to get an American bred GSD. So, being a newbie and all that, I'd love to see all of this talk change to something more constructive since I want to support good breeders and good dogs.
Are the lines being watered down? Are they too integrated? Would importing dogs from other countries help? What countries? What benefits would one country have over another? Are the dogs simply not trained as well? I've heard from many people that other countries are having the same problems with their lines as America. Is this true? If so, what can be done? While each breeder has his own opinion on what the best GSD is, can we all agree on what an extreme would look like? What should be done with dogs that are outliers from the norm- neuter, give different jobs depending on temperament, how to find places for such dogs, etc.? How can we influence policy for the betterment of the breed? Most importantly, can we all agree on the definition of "well rounded?"
That's the kind of stuff I'd like to see people bring up and discuss. In asking an open ended question, one must be willing to eloquently defend ones position. And if not, work towards a different or modified understanding.

Ushirun: enjoy the journey! There is so much to learn and it never stops being fascinating! This web site is a wealth of knowledge and can be a great forum.

We have an international breed standard, all in writing, I wonder what would happen if the governing organization would add illustrations or photos to the standard. Words can be interpreted is so many different ways, with photos and illustrations breeders would have much more guidance as to what a GSD should look like, and good breeders (and judges) would have fewer loopholes for breeding extremes.

The FCI standard has 2 photos at the top of their standard, but only in profile.  The FCI received this standard from the SV, like it or not it is the international standard. www.fci.be/uploaded_files/166g01-en-sv.doc I would like to see many more defined photos or illustrations. For instance, photos or illustration for each section (head, ears, feet, pasterns, shoulder, hind quarters showing guidelines and measurements). IMO this would stop much of this bickering.

There is a standard, there are photos of what a GSD is supposed to look like, as ethical breeders, it is our job to breed to the whole standard - both the working side and conformation side at the same time, while also doing health testing. If this would done, we would have a balanced GSD and these silly topics would not become SL v WL mud slinging contests.
 

A gaiting dog (which the GSD is) needs proper angulation to move correctly and have the endurance needed to work all day.  A straight back is just as much of a hindrance as is over angulation.  If you listen to judge's critiques, they will use the words under/over or correct angulation. A correct front is also important in a balanced dog with good movement.  The breeding goal as far as angulation (temperament, etc is also important) is a dog who can gait effortlessly while still being able to stand, walk and run without pain.  An over angulated dog will break down just as quickly as a straight back dog.

They are being bred and you can find properly angulated dogs in all lines.  Just need to look for them.

I personally think there are more breeders today trying to breed a well rounded dog than ten years ago. Are there still plenty who breed crap? sure, always will but lets take the time to acknowledge that there are many who are working hard to breed good balanced dogs.  It is not easy and not cheap and they usually don't much recognition.