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by GSDfan on 23 December 2013 - 07:12
I will weigh in here...but I admit I haven't read the other replies so forgive me if I'm repeating.
"Aloof" is too often misunderstood. It does NOT mean suspicious or wary.
My bitch Ema (SchH3, PSA1) is the most perfect example of "aloof" I can think of. She is not at all disturbed by the presence of the average friendly stranger. If passing by she will watch you attentively, if you approach and are friendly she will pretend you are invisible while you engage me in conversation. She will cleverly stand just out of arms reach of you but if you make an effort to go out of your way and pet her she will not move away, she will continue to pretend you are invisible and will not give the affection giver any satisfaction nor will she wag her tail but is relaxed, she will receive the "pets" with confidence and stability.
This IMO is a true aloof dog with a correct GSD temperament. She is trained in protection and will bite without equipment if threatened or commanded, but she is NOT a loose cannon. She does not shy away nor is she "wary" of anyone. She has a cat like stare to strangers who have not yet proven themselves "friendly" but is it not outwardly threatening unless commanded to be so or given reason to by the subjects behavior. She does not lack confidence at all, but does not lend herself to easy friendships.
In our yard she is a little more social and will interact with strangers more. But only to exploit their ability to throw her ball.
Her daughter is more social. I would not call this incorrect...and perhaps even more desirable to some owners. She enjoys affection from friendly strangers and gives more "satisfaction" to the affection giver by wagging her tail and responding to their affection. If she has a ball she will obnoxiously push it into their stomach. For raising a confident working pup this behavior was encouraged and displays that she has no reservations.
Many people like or believe a dog should have some suspiciousness with strangers. This IMO is a lack of confidence and derived from fear. With some very balanced dogs this can be ok, if their confidence is built with socialiazation and training by a good helper.
Suspiciousness to some might appear be a short cut to civility, especially to the layman (Civil = a dog that will bite "for real" without equipment) but after that initial "real" bite the dog is likely to come close to or pass his thresholds (come off the bite) with very little pressure. In a sport like PSA where a dog is tested in a civil scenario with a great deal of pressure, a suspicious dog will not go very far. In addition with regards to suit work, when a dog must target the bicep you learn a great deal about that dog. You must have a very confident dog to target the bicep and keep a strong grip so close to the decoys face. I see a lot of dogs who have too much suspicion have a big problem "being there"....some I can put a lot of work on and desensitize and raise his confidence vs the decoy, others the farthest they will progress is targeting the forearm/tricep.
"Aloof" is too often misunderstood. It does NOT mean suspicious or wary.
My bitch Ema (SchH3, PSA1) is the most perfect example of "aloof" I can think of. She is not at all disturbed by the presence of the average friendly stranger. If passing by she will watch you attentively, if you approach and are friendly she will pretend you are invisible while you engage me in conversation. She will cleverly stand just out of arms reach of you but if you make an effort to go out of your way and pet her she will not move away, she will continue to pretend you are invisible and will not give the affection giver any satisfaction nor will she wag her tail but is relaxed, she will receive the "pets" with confidence and stability.
This IMO is a true aloof dog with a correct GSD temperament. She is trained in protection and will bite without equipment if threatened or commanded, but she is NOT a loose cannon. She does not shy away nor is she "wary" of anyone. She has a cat like stare to strangers who have not yet proven themselves "friendly" but is it not outwardly threatening unless commanded to be so or given reason to by the subjects behavior. She does not lack confidence at all, but does not lend herself to easy friendships.
In our yard she is a little more social and will interact with strangers more. But only to exploit their ability to throw her ball.
Her daughter is more social. I would not call this incorrect...and perhaps even more desirable to some owners. She enjoys affection from friendly strangers and gives more "satisfaction" to the affection giver by wagging her tail and responding to their affection. If she has a ball she will obnoxiously push it into their stomach. For raising a confident working pup this behavior was encouraged and displays that she has no reservations.
Many people like or believe a dog should have some suspiciousness with strangers. This IMO is a lack of confidence and derived from fear. With some very balanced dogs this can be ok, if their confidence is built with socialiazation and training by a good helper.
Suspiciousness to some might appear be a short cut to civility, especially to the layman (Civil = a dog that will bite "for real" without equipment) but after that initial "real" bite the dog is likely to come close to or pass his thresholds (come off the bite) with very little pressure. In a sport like PSA where a dog is tested in a civil scenario with a great deal of pressure, a suspicious dog will not go very far. In addition with regards to suit work, when a dog must target the bicep you learn a great deal about that dog. You must have a very confident dog to target the bicep and keep a strong grip so close to the decoys face. I see a lot of dogs who have too much suspicion have a big problem "being there"....some I can put a lot of work on and desensitize and raise his confidence vs the decoy, others the farthest they will progress is targeting the forearm/tricep.
by Jenni78 on 23 December 2013 - 10:12
Totally agree with that example of "aloof." "Everyone but my mom is invisible" (unless threatening) not "Everyone but my mom is scary."
by susie on 23 December 2013 - 12:12
Hired dog said: ANY breed is suitable as a companion, but, working dogs must first work, be able to work, as they were not bred to be companion dogs but working dogs FIRST.
That´s it in a nutshell. After all, there is no "perfect" dog, and there NEVER HAS BEEN.
But back to topic:
Temperament issues in several showlines: too prey-driven, scary, timid, sharp ( not mentioning over-angulation, roach back, and health issues at this point )
Temperament issues in some working lines: way too prey-driven, scary, sharp ( not mentioning lack of standard, and health issues at this point )
There almost is no difference, but there still are a lot of good dogs out there ( at least in my country ), be it working- or showline, mostly bred by small breeders, trying to breed the "universal dog", and not the winner.
For me the worst nowadays is the immense prey-drive, unknown in former times.
While training these dogs the handlers are able to cover a lot of temperament faults.
It´s a shame the German Shepherd became "the flavor of the day". This breed is no pet - breed.
That´s it in a nutshell. After all, there is no "perfect" dog, and there NEVER HAS BEEN.
But back to topic:
Temperament issues in several showlines: too prey-driven, scary, timid, sharp ( not mentioning over-angulation, roach back, and health issues at this point )
Temperament issues in some working lines: way too prey-driven, scary, sharp ( not mentioning lack of standard, and health issues at this point )
There almost is no difference, but there still are a lot of good dogs out there ( at least in my country ), be it working- or showline, mostly bred by small breeders, trying to breed the "universal dog", and not the winner.
For me the worst nowadays is the immense prey-drive, unknown in former times.
While training these dogs the handlers are able to cover a lot of temperament faults.
It´s a shame the German Shepherd became "the flavor of the day". This breed is no pet - breed.
by SitasMom on 23 December 2013 - 12:12
in the book working dogs, traits to be sought
sound temperament
medium body sensitivity
medium ear sensitivity
intelligence
willingness
energy
aggressiveness, for work demanding the train, otherwise medium aggressiveness
trailing willingness, except for work with blind guiding
lack of distrust except when producing dogs for liaison work
each train is well detailed in the book, and it's worth reading to find out more.
sound temperament
medium body sensitivity
medium ear sensitivity
intelligence
willingness
energy
aggressiveness, for work demanding the train, otherwise medium aggressiveness
trailing willingness, except for work with blind guiding
lack of distrust except when producing dogs for liaison work
each train is well detailed in the book, and it's worth reading to find out more.
by Chaz Reinhold on 24 December 2013 - 21:12
Gerbil...lol!!! That might replace the term, "lawn ornament" for 2014.
Happy Holidays, everyone. Even the show line people.
Happy Holidays, everyone. Even the show line people.
by Eldee on 27 December 2013 - 23:12
I guess I have been lucky my entire life. I have always had the most loving and loyal german shepherds. They are quite simply ( when they mature ) a solid dog. They seem to know what you want even before you do. For me, there is no other breed that can compare with this breed when it comes to intelligence, loyalty, and just general soundness. Like I said, I guess I have just been lucky. The EPI thing with Maya has really become a non issue as it is so easy to control. She is probably healthier than a lot of dogs out there. But yes, if anything has been compromised over the years I think it is health more than anything else. Incompetent owners they don't help the breed either.
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