help..... i need advice on my two 8 month old german shepherd pups - Page 6

I myself will keep any dog I aquired whether it turns out to be what I expected or not. For me, till death due us part.

I agree KitKat, it is what I like to see in a breeder.  JG seems uncertain as to what she is going to do.
Much as JG is probably a very nice person, she really doesn't seem to be breeder material yet. Maybe with some maturity and experience, but not now.  

I dont think thats fair that you would say that I dont have the maturity and all this. I am sure every last one of you have followed your goals and have done your dreams. I am very mature for my age very. I love any dog that I own. As far as the other two I did have theres alot of things you people dont know I dont blab my bussiness on here not all of it anyways because this is why. I always dreamed of be coming a breeder. I do my research and still do what I have to. I have good friends that help me thru think and thin. Kitkatt has been my friend for years and knows about everything ive been thru honestly. She knows im very mature she also knows what breeders have done to me meaning the first one and now this one. I AM GOING TO SAY THIS LOUD AND CLEAR I LOVE MY DOGS WHEN I SAY I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO I MEAN ABOUT THE WHOLE SITUATION. Do u think I love giving my dogs up no I do not. I think its unfair that I tried to work things out with the breeder and she wont do anything she tells me to send them back to her if im not happy with them. Now why am I gonna do that when this has been thru home for months and all she is going to do is resell them again like they r merchandise. Which is unfair to the dogs. They didnt ask to be on this planet. I did NOT know the breeder bred her male with soemone elses female she never rote tbat on her site she never mentioned it at all. I thought the female was hers being she listed a picture of the mother and father of my two pups. I thought the female was hers to I didnt know at all she took her male and bred her male to someone elses dog. Which she said she didnt whelp the pups she just helped sell them which again she didnt list on her website. For the record I do take responsibility if somethings that are my fault but this was truly not my fault. I talked with the breeder and told her I do wanna get into breeding and all this she told me she would help me. She knew the pups had hernias she knew but didnt tell me at all she sold me her with breeding rights knowing about it. It really upsets me that some people on here are down grading me when all I do is come on here for help not hearing I am a nice person but dont think im breeding material. No one on this data base knows me at all except ny friends kittkatt is one of them. You have no right to say I am not breeding material it isnt rocket science to breed ok. Yes agreed it is alot of money and does take alot of work I am defiently aware of this and kittkatt knows this is something I wanted to do for years. Im sure everyone deserves a big chance to do what they love to do which that is what id like to do. Like I said before I love all my dogs and would do anything for them everyone that knows me like that defiently knows how I am and how my animals mean the world to me. Yes I did get the male and knew he had mega e I took him for free. She told me she wanted him to go to a home with one of his siblings do I told her I would do it bcs it isnt his fault he was born with it. He has grew out of it to my knowledge although until he is fully grown that cant be checked my vet told me once he is we will check and see. Ive told the breeder all the time updates on how my two r doing when they were 3-4 months old I was worrying about their ears she told me their ears r fine. I kept telling her and telling her until they were 6-7 months old then she told.me oh try glue and try ear inserts. Ive never had a problem with ears. I do know one thing they did get enough calcium i do know about the rough play I would never let them play rough with one another being that I know they r still growing and especially their ears but their siblings ears were up at 3 and ahalf months. Their brothers ears and sisters now my two pups ears are not. Ive done everything I could. Reguardless of things I dont wanna fight with anyone it isnt my intention on here I came on here for advice NOT to be bashed and told I cant do my dream and cant do what my heart feels. I came on here because I thought alot of you would help me with advice this is why I do NOT come on here and this is why. Ive done no rong in this matter im aware when u become a breeder u do take risk but I told the breeder what hell ive been thru and again this happens again I thought she was a reputable breeder I didnt think she would do this to me. I guess because I am to nice I guess. Imnsorry u people think the way u do of me when truly I am a great person with a big heart kitkstt can tell u she knows me very well. I do not understand why people tho have to do this to me. I guess some people think they r god and think their dogs r better than anyones and just because im still doing research doesnt mean I wouldnt be a good breeder at all. If I have excellant mentors I am sure I will be. I understand u people r experts some of u and alot of u believe u know best but u know no one is better than anyone. I can learn to do this the right way and learn what I need to know as long as I have good.mentors and people that are the same as me love their dogs and stand behind them every step of the way. See once I do become a breeder I WILL MARK MY WORDS WILL stand behind everyone of my dogs and puppies. I will also make sure they r healthy and have excellant temperments as well. Some of these people breed for money which is a disgrace honestly. I dont know how anyone can breed for money and breed and make puppies and not give to craps on them. I guess thats what this world comes to. Either way I am NEVER going to be that way. As kittkatt said I would gladly take my pups back if something was rong not to mention I will make sure they r going to a excellant home. If something was rong with any puppy I have no matter what I would help and make ends meet in w e situation it is. The breeder told me she refuses to give me a replacement she refuses to this and that and all this. I cant force her hand to do anything however I can say this she told me to send them back and then what if I did that id be out money and be out of my dogs which they arent toys to me at all. Im not going to dispose of them it isnt their fault at all. Theres alot I havent said on here because of things and this is one of them thinking u know me and u do not. I believe id be an excellant breeder as long as I have excellant mentors to teach me right from rong. Im sure every last one of u had that opertunity when it comes down to breeding so please stop thinking u know me and think im not breeding material bcs I do believe I would be. If I can ever be able to start and not get screwed over all the time by people.

I don't know the dogs, breeder, buyer, etc... but common sense tells me this, screaming about how mature you, proves exactly how immature you are. I can't speak for the others, but it seems to ME that they are trying to advise you to possibly do a little mentorship under a good, established breeder, learn what they have to teach you, see first hand the process of dog breeding, from pre-breeding care to selling puppies. There are so many wonderful breeders to learn from, that can guide you, help you and may even do a partnership with you to help you achieve your dreams. Dreams are wonderful things, and by taking the above steps, you are NOT postponing your dream, you are preparing yourself for your dream!

IF you decide to try a sort of understudy with a breeder, take a note book for notes, ask questions, work hands on (if they'll allow you to) and learn! You'll go much farther in your dream, if you see now the steps (of an ESTABLISHED breeder) to lay the foundation for your program. 

I have heard of breeders allowing someone looking to breed to watch their program and learn under them. The breeder gets some much needed help, and you gain much needed information.

I'm being as polite as possible, as I do believe you have a good heart, and I don't think ANYONE here was saying otherwise. Take care, learn, and take the steps to lay a good foundation for your program.

I wish to thank those who are not taking sides,  not bulling and bashing people and are providing great advise and information.

For the record, and so that it is public knowledge I would like to say that I have invited Alexis Feehrer aka  Jersey Girl 22 to send the pups back to me.   I ask her several times last night in private PM on Facebook to send them back to me.  I also reminded her, per contract that if she decides to not keep them  she must send them back: 

Alexis signed an 11 page contract with me,  as do all my puppy buyer. She affirmed that she read and understood it.  It was written by a licensed, experienced, practicing attorney,  who also happens to be a multiple dog owner:

I am taking the liberty to copy some of the relevant parts of the contract, interspersed here:

Paragraph 7   require that the dogs come back to me if she does not keep them. 

1. If the Buyer elects not to keep the Dog for any reason, ownership shall revert back to Seller immediately.  Furthermore, Buyer agrees to NEVER place the Dog in an animal shelter, rescue, pet store or puppy mill or with another person.  Any transfer back to Seller shall be accompanied with the appropriate AKC and/or registration papers, veterinarian records etc., properly endorsed.
2. Buyer shall notify Seller of any changes in the Buyer’s mailing address, phone number and/or e-mail address within thirty (30) days of any such change.
3. In the event that Buyer breaches any of these obligations set forth above, or does not maintain the Dog in a condition in accordance with the state and/or national Humane Society, the ownership of the Dog SHALL IMMEDIATELY REVERT to the Seller, and Seller shall have the right to repossess the Dog with NO refund or Reimbursement to Buyer and at no expense to Seller.  In addition, if Buyer breaches any of his or her obligations under this Agreement, Buyer shall pay Seller as liquidated damages an amount equal to twice the original purchase price, which would total $3,000.00, due to the difficult or impossibility of calculating the damages caused by such breach.

Alexis also states that I am refusing her a replacement puppy,  which I am based on her reasons,  ears and hernia.  I am also confused because In PM on Facebook last night,  March 07 Alexis stated that she is not asking me for a replacement puppy. 

Based on the conditions she is stating,  I do not owe her a replacement puppy.   I feel like any breeder/seller will understand,  they can not replace or give puppies to everyone who feels like they have an issue that is out of the sellers control and not part of a contract.  Again I will state,  I am NOT the breeder.  I own the male and offered a contract  The owners of the female do not want to breed again.  They decided it was too much effort and too hard to raise puppies,  both emotionally and financially.  Which I am sure we can all understand.  It truly is a labor of love, not money, if done correctly:

Paragraph 3 section G

1. There is NO WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR OF FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE with regard to the Dog, including no warranty, representation or guarantee that the Dog is fit for breeding or any other purpose, will grow to a particular size or weight or have a particular coat or temperament.  Seller assumes no responsibility of any nature with respect to the activity, demeanor, suitability, performance or other propensities of the dog once it is delivered to the Buyer.

As for the Mega E.  This puppy was never stunted or smaller them the rest of the litter.  The 'breeder/owner of the female" reported that he had started to throw up occasionally.  The vet took barium x rays and could see some back up.  The "Breeder/owner of the female" opted not to put him down at 6 weeks.  He was offered to Alexis with full knowledge of his condition or assumed condition.  From the time she received him at 8 weeks and a couple of days,  she has reported no issues. No regurgitation,  no special diet or meals.  As you can see he is a healthy, active, correctly sized dog for his age.    Dogs/puppies with Mega E,  according to the reports (http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/dog-enlarged-esophagus-megaesophagus)  also have frequent bouts of aspiration pneumonia, and can not swallow food without having it elevated,  etc.  She has stated to me many times that he must have out grown  it.  I would believe that he never had it and it was a missed diagnosis.  There are no genetic tests,  we have no idea how many alleles control it or pass it along to progeny. 

Vickie Garrick






 

I currently have a foster puppy with congenital mega-e and it is not true that they are smaller or stunted. Some of these dogs DO NOT need special food or vertical feeding - like my foster - and don't get aspiration pneumonia and, yes, some of them, especially GSDs, DO grow out ot it. If the vet did barium x-rays - which is the definitive test for mega-e - and diagnosed the pup with mega-e, then the pup most definitely did have it. The condition is very obvious on x-ray and can't be anything else.

My own foster eats kibble from a dish on the floor and looks like any other perfectly normal, healthy, active pup, but he is a mega-e pup. The dogs with the more severe cases have a much harder time and do require special food, vertical feeding, and are walking pharmacies.

Would I ever in a million years buy a dog for potential breeding with a littermate or even a closely related dog with this terrible disease? NO! And there's no excuse for you to try and minimze that you sold this girl - that you knew was looking for a breeding dog - just that. Shame on you! You may not have been the breeder, but this was a pup out of your male - which I would NEVER breed again - and you clearly stated that you helped sell the litter. You are the one she dealt with and sold her these dogs, which makes you an irresponsible breeder.

This girl is clearly very young and immature and has zero idea of what she's doing and you took advantage of that. It would be a different story if she had just been looking for pet dogs and took them after full disclosure of the mega-e and the need to never breed either one, but that wasn't the case.

I agree Greyhound Girl, that a littermate of a mega-e pup should not have been sold as a breeding prospect. Someone wanting to breed should have known this themselves, hence my comments above and below to JG.

JG When you come on a forum and post, you are going to give an insight into 'what you are about'. My comments were an opinion, they certainly weren't derogatory remarks, I said in fact that I don't dispute you are a very nice person. Being nice doesn't automatically make a good breeder.

I couldn't agree more with what Sweet Country Dreams said. This is what I too am trying to say....prepare for your dream properly. Put in the groundwork and gain knowledge and experience. This isn't like other hobbies, you will produce living creatures and if you get it wrong, they can and will suffer.  Your immaturity is clearly on display and part of that immaturity is 'I want it now'...'you can't tell me I can't have my dream' etc etc. .  You asked for help on here, but you don't want to listen to the very sound advice, because you want to 'do it now'. If you prepare and learn you will start your dream on the right footing. If you are determined to become a breeder without putting years of learning in first you will be a breeder but you will NOT be a good breeder. If you can't see that, that is because you haven't attained the right level of maturity yet.  A good mentor is a wonderful thing, follow Sweet Country Dream's plan.

When I said you should take the responsibility too, it is because you should have enough knowledge to be able to select a breeding prospect, and that probably wouldn't be a pup, since you don't know whether they will be of a standard to breed from. Your situation is a good illustration of this. You should at least know enough about the health conditions to have thought that mega-e in the lines ruled out this bitch as a breeding prospect, despite her other faults. This is what I mean when I say you cannot rely on others to think for you. It is your dog, your breeding line you need to know enough to get it right. If you find a good mentor and work with them it will help you, and I would suggest that you haven't researched or gained nearly enough knowledge to embark upon breeding. If it wasn't for the ears and hernia it seems that you would have happily bred this bitch....maybe perpetuating mega-e, which is a terrible affliction. Mega-e doesn't seem to have registered with you as a potential problem. 

. .

I think it is amazing that anyone one would ever sign a contract like that. I would have grabbed my sharpie marker and strarted to cross off and initial whole sections. Or not buy from them, that too.

Jersey Girl should have known better, since she went through one other dissatisfied puppy buying ordeal already. Time to wise up, Jersey Girl!

Bee tree honestly I have wised up and now I know that I dont trust anyone except my true friends.

As far as what vickie says again. Why am I gonna ship my pups back to her when all she is going to do is resell them and make a profit off off of them. As far as giving them back I told u in a message that I was not going to send them back bcs I do love them. As far as also sending thrm back and what be out 1900 no thank u. I think its a pretty shitty thing to do honestly to someone when knowing they had hernias and knowing the brother had mega e u sold her to be as a breeding prospect but knowing this would happen. I think this was ur entention. Not to mention if I dont recall u told me on here its immature well ur continuing to bash me and I have not said ur name WHAT so ever. However u say my friends r immature for bashing u but yet ur throwing stones and bashing me. Ive tried to sort out my differences with u ive tried to talk with u it got no where u said allnmy friends are rong and dont have this and that and also my vet is rong. Honestly my vet is a dm/dvm which is a lisenced doctor and also a doctor of veyernairian of medicine. So therefore im sure everyone would agree that when a vet says something and is honest they have a liscense so come on now. She even admitted about the unbelical inhernia. Whateever im tired of arguing with people aboutthis I really am. Im tired of being treated like a peice of shit when now I know where I stand its basicallt just this u got ur money and ran with it like a typical breeder that all u care about is money bottom line. U dont care about ur dogs u seriously dont. U never did obviously as people said a reputable breeder would stand behind their dogs all the way. Not to mention wouldnt sell a breeding prosepect with hernia and all this. The funny thing is people said they r good companions not breeding/ show prospects. U charged 1500 for a puppy now u have raised ur price to 2500 for a breeding show prospect. As other people said are they gonna have hernias and mega e too. Its a shame u care more about money than u do about ur dogs. But now I know and have learned a valuable lesson once again. Im not agruing with anyone I dont need this I really do not Vickie Garrick says that people on the data base that has to bash other breeders r immature and all this but the funny part is she is on here slinging mud. Vickie im curious why not say everything u said to me on the facebook messages about kittkatt and along with my other friends go ahead u ran my name thru the mud like u know me better than u think. Well let me tell u this u do NOT know me from adam and u dont know anything about me so go ahead and keep running ur mouth on here if u continue to run my name and run ur mouth. I wont hesitate to do whatever it is I need to do.

Also once again vickie garrick said the puppies werent hers but she posted them on her website as tho they were hers to sell. She didnt advise ANYONREEEEE that these puppies werent hers. Again that means her contract does NOT have anything to do with me than being she just admitted that these puppies are NOT hers. SHE just admitted she isnt the breeder and all this so therefore if she isnt that is fine then stop mud slinging me. U used ur male so there fore it wasnt ur breeding u shouldve stated that on ur site which u did not u posted them as a breeding pair u bred urself which was not right so its all good I got it now basically u lied. U did false advertisement. I had no knwoledge the female wasnt urs I thought she was u shouldve posted that