What color is this puppy? - Page 5

Ibrahim, did you look at Hexe's links? 

You guys have kind of confirmed my deepest concern.

The breeder told me "he doesn't have any good pics of the sire"... and I only got a short glimpse of him.  To tell you the truth I wouldn't have bought the pup since the breeder was so sketchy about the sire if I hadn't already travelled two hours to pick him up from what I thought was a reputable breeder.  My mistake, clearly - I was wanting a pup and rushed into it believing what was said.  Or maybe they didn't even really know, who knows.

But, what can I do now?  I could try contacting the breeder but I have a feeling that would not go well.

I guess I'm a little confused on how this puppy ended up with the AKC papers he has if there was something else interjected along the way.  How did the offspring of the UKC registered only dog (Rico) become eligible for full AKC registration?  I'm new to the world of dogs with papers.

And another thing - the sire is what I thought was sketchy but Rico appears on the dam's side... that just makes it weirder to me.

(And yes, Jenni, I'm a girl! haha)

Thanks again for all your help everyone

As you said GSD Admin the bleed through on the A (resessive) blacks we know is mostly in the toes. Today I found out what they are calling it when is happens on Dominant Black dogs. They call it "Seal". No genetic research has so far been conducted into seal, so it is unknown how it is caused or which locus is responsible for it. 

Current theories include seal being an allele on the K locus (recessive to K), an allele on the A locus, or a modifier on an unknown locus that causes the A locus to partly show through on Kk dogs.

Seal mixed breed - photo by Jamie Elvert
http://www.doggenetics.co.uk/black.htm

Interesting as well is that this (K Dominant Black)  is also the gene that makes Black wolves black. Said to have been introduced to the wolf population from distant interbreeding with domestic dogs, when you look up black wolf pictures you can see some look a little sable as well, with a silver or brown color showing through.
Genetic research from the Stanford University School of Medicine and the University of California, Los Angeles revealed that wolves with black pelts owe their distinctive coloration to a mutation which occurred in domestic dogs, and was carried to wolves through wolf-dog hybridisation.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_wolf
Biologists solve mystery of black wolves
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/biologists-solve-mystery-about-80301

StormGSD, the pictures are a treat. I hope we get some of your pup in the sun as well. even if the sire's pedigree has error's in it still is a an awesome & healthy looking puppy. Most often these pedigrees remain the way they are unless by some chance they can be corrected by the AKC.

Storm, I would get a DNA test before I contacted the breeder. I still say this is a sable GSD. Without proof all the rest is just an educated guess.

AKC cares about one thing. Money. You unfortunately feel prey to a dishonest breeder and if they'll lie to you, why not AKC? AKC is a bit of a joke- they present this image of prestige but really, they're nothing more than a registry- not the breeding police!

If you paid for a GSD pup with full papers from AKC, well, you've got a problem. The breeder has AKC privileges- probably doesn't want to lose them, so I would politely bring up the problem and see what they're willing to do about it. If the breeder does nothing, I'd talk to AKC. Frankly, I can't believe the breeder is dumb enough to pull this with all those pics of crosses on her page! 

You likely have a really nice puppy.  You just don't have a purebred GSD puppy. 

So, Admin, you think it's just coincidence that the breeder has pics of Mal crosses (and also has Dutchies on there) who look JUST like that on the website?? And the dog has no sable ancestors??? Or did you not look at Hexe's links?  I'm lost....

And what's a DNA test going to show unless the parents aren't who the breeder said? The dog is predominantly GSD. The breed determination tests are simply not that accurate. I thought the question was what is the sire, not whether the sire is really the sire of this pup.

Breeder hiding the sire, says no good pics of him...sire's sire standing at stud at kennel producing Mal & Dutchie crosses....awfully big coincidence, imo. 

I just don't jump the gun without proof. I may be wrong but hey life is about making mistakes and learning from those mistakes. It is what it is. And at this point I will stick with a sable GSD.

Is there a company you would recommended for a purebred DNA test?  I see there are a lot of options online.

I don't know if you're talking to me or Admin, Storm. There is not one I'd recommend, at least not in this case,because your dog IS predominantly GSD. I don't know any reliable enough to tell if a dog has just a hint of another similar breed in them. I remember one person w/a very well bred GSD did a test just for fun, to test its accuracy, and her dog came back as a Bernest Mountain Dog mix...so, unless you're doubting parentage I don't know that a DNA test is going to help you. I could be wrong- I'm not saying it won't show, but I'm not promising it will be that sensitive. Remember, it has to have a bank off which to compare- so the results are only as accurate as the references. 

Thanks Jenni.  I was hoping a test might be able to accurately tell... I guess I'm not sure how to prove to the breeder that he doesn't seem purebred?  Just go back and state the color anomalies, lack of confidence in sire, and the unregistered dog in the pedigree?  Just trying to get a valid reason together before I get back in touch with him.