The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 1

The decline of German Shepherd character.

Reading the PDB I have noted many comments about the decline of the German Shepherd character and the fact that it has affected the willingness to work. Some posters are saying that the characters have become softer. These comments appear to relate mainly to the showline dogs whose breeders produce the highest percentage of dogs each year.

In my opinion the problem is not just an inherited cause. Unfortunately, too many breeders have too many dogs and do not build up strong enough bonds with their dogs. There just is not enough time in the day. Working line breeders may have some problems but the bonds between them and their dogs is much stronger probably because they tend to have fewer dogs which in turn means that their dogs are kept active and work to a discipline. Too many show dogs are basically untrained other than to run around the show ring. Not many are worked to a serious discipline where the dogs enjoy the activity. In fact, too many breeders have never trained a dog even in the basics rules that they should live by. Complete lack of experience in this very important department leads to weaker characters. Only a few dogs will be regularly socialised.

Much is needed in the way the breeders must change in their activities and embrace all aspects of breeding, training, husbandry. The German Shepherd needs to have an interest to maintain it’s place as a working breed and, just as intense as the breeders need to produce their dogs.

Mackenzie

What a great goal for 2015. Thumbs up . If any debate arises from your thread can we all agree on the last paragraph?!

Working line breeders have stronger bonds with their dogs than showline?   Based on? Only showline breeders who have a lot of litters don't train their dogs? 

I guess maybe you haven't handled many working line dogs, especially youngish (under 2-3) ones. 

Rather simplistic post!

Hi, Mackenzie,

Is  the goal of your post some kind of hope for "reconciliation" of the breed whereby the show line breeders and the SV forego their primary purpose (for show) and devolve back toward being working centric?

You know as well as I do that the proverbial ship sailed long ago; the two very distinct lineages within the SV system will continue separately and unabated.

Further "discussion" changes none of that.

C' est la vie.

Best,

Kevin

It's nice to dream about a reconciliation, but I have to agree with Kevin. 

MacKenzie:

I do agree with your last paragraph but the balance of your post has far too many generalizations.  Do you have actual statistics to back up your assertions or are you making these claims based on somewhat  limited personal observations. Some folks like dogs that are completely crazy with excessive prey drive and some folks want a dog that can actually live with them in their homes. Hell, some folks just want a pet that looks like a German Shepherd Dog rather than a something that approximates their idea of a German Shepherd Dog to snuggle with on the couch.  I have owned both working and show line dogs and I personally like a bit calmer dog but I do want my dogs worked and active. The reality of life is there are more show line dogs being bred and sold because the market demand is greater. Ford quit building Edsels because people didn't like their looks and therefore they did not  buy them in sufficient qualities to justify production. They were actually Fords but they didn't look like Fords.

Because I have a preference does not give me a license to criticize every one who does not agree with me.  I enjoy German Shepherd Dogs, be they from working or show lines,  but I like the looks of the show lines better!!!!!!!!

Happy New Year to everyone

Jenni78 - First I would like to point out that I have not said ALL showline breeders don’t train their dogs.

I first came into this breed in 1970 and at that time in the UK most dogs worked in Obedience and Trials came from show line stock. Over the years I have handled many dogs. I used to go, for quite a few years, to Germany almost every weekend where I bought dogs for my own breeding. I have trained for the Schutzhund with my dogs and also trained for other people. At this time I have only two dogs, a male by the Sieger Bax v Luisenstrasse ( a very good worker when he was young) and he is now 10 years of age. My other dog is female and I bought her from Karl Fuller ( v Kirschental) who is now six years of age.

Instead of jumping on me perhaps you would like to make a comment more related to the theme.

A simplistic response I believe.

Mackenzie

Hi Kevin - it would be nice to see a reconciliation in the breed between the show and working side but I fear that may be a long way off. In fact there are some working line animals around that although not perfectly correct in their anatomy are good enough to be outcrossed to a show line and, equally, there are some show line dogs who are average workers who would be useful in correcting some of the anatomical problems in the working lines. At the end of the day we must remember that whether show line or working line they are ALL German Shepherd dogs. The breed must always come first.

As for the side coming together we only have to look at all the conflicts in the world that have taken place and they all have the same thing in common. They were all settled by discussion. The problem is getting everyone to the same point which is a willingness to participate.

Mackenzie

Richard's post sums it up succinctly.

(Most) breeders breed for the market; and, in the case of the German Shepherd Dog it has become a mass market.  The GSD has become the equivalent of Volkswagen with a car (dog) for everyone.

Fair enough.

But I do add this caveat; as much as I disagree with the overall direction of our breed particularly with the SV's capitulation away from their original purpose, it it certainly possible to find a dog from within that system that fits most working purposes.  It merely takes personal due diligence, proper contacts, and knowledge not to mention talent to train within a particular discipline.

If the criticism (Mackenzie's) is that the breed has become too broad as sanctioned by the organization originally tasked with preservation of a far more narrow standard, then the point is valid.  But, if the point is "no good dogs exist anymore" then I say NONSENSE.

What do you wish to stir up and/or accomplish Mackenzie by posting on this kind of forum this particular, well hashed subject?

Kevin

Hi Richard Medlen - First my first post has to be a generalization because of space and to arouse interest. Specifics can come during reasonable debate.

The excesses that you mention are mainly, in my opinion, brought on by competitions. All I ask of my dogs is a competent performance and, I like the soft side they show in the house and around people. The point is, even for the pet dogs, there must always be the breed trait to have a willingness to work.

Like you I do not expect everyone to agree with me, many do not at first, however, later some of these people change their mind. It comes down to reasonable debate on all sides.

Mackenzie