Universal Sieger - Page 1

Pedigree Database


by Blitzen on 11 January 2015 - 13:01


"The title of “Universalesieger” should be one of the most important  titles  a German Shepherd Dog can win.  It is the ideal that von Stephanitz  always had in mind."

Dennis Fisher

by gsdstudent on 11 January 2015 - 15:01

Ideals are great, Also important would be an honest breed survey of each animal. The ideal would be to have a dog judged against the standard and not placed in a ''pecking order'' from a class of dogs. I believe one of the ideals of vov Stephanitz was to never place too much importance on one single dog for breeding. What if you owned the sister to the Universal Siger? Does that mean that you must breed her to the second place dog or in American thought patterns the '' first loser'? Have a nice pagent for the BSP, SS, Wusv , what ever but breed to the ideal of the standard. 

by Richard Medlen on 11 January 2015 - 15:01

The "Universal Sieger" concept promotes the ideal German Shepherd Dog. It, if promoted and practiced, will keep our beloved breed honest.  It restrains working dog extremists from breeding dogs that look like coyotes or malinios. It keeps show dog extremists from producing animals with the temperament of a toy poodle.  The concept will help us maintain the breed as the most beautiful and utilitarian working dogs in the world.  The Universal Sieger Show and Trial represents the effort to insure the promotion of "The Golden Middle" in the breed. That is what they should be and that is what each and every lover of the breed should expect and demand.  Join the movement and help promote the "Universal Sieger Trial and Show". It is to be held the first weekend in May at Purina Farms in Gray Summit, Missouri (a short distance south of St.Louis and just off Interstate 44).

The GSDCA IPO Championship is scheduled to be held there that weekend also. In like manner, a conventional SV Style Breed Show for all classes and a Breed Survey with Koermeister Helmut Koenig are scheduled (May 1,2 & 3, 2015).

by Ibrahim on 11 January 2015 - 15:01

I agree, if I understand this title correctly, it is given to a GSD of outstanding show performance as well as work performance. It is a good way to promote strong GSDs just like those of old time when a GSd could win both in work trials and show ring. Sad this title is not promoted enough.


For those who search for strong beautiful GSd, the can search out breeders who enter their dogs for competition for this title. This way we help those serious breeders.

by Richard Medlen on 11 January 2015 - 16:01


I don't know if I understood your post or not. The inference about an "honest breedsurvey" confuses me.  A breed survey does not rank dogs in "pecking order". The Breed Survey does not compare dogs to each other. Its purpose is to compare dogs to the breed standard and classify them as to their breed worthiness in one of three classes; Not for Breeding, Acceptible for Breeding and Recomended for Breeding.  All the dogs determined to meet the Breed Standard with out structural faults are classified as "Recommended for Breeding" and Breed Survey Class 1, (KKL1). All the dogs determined to meet the Breed Standard but do so with minor Structural Defects or Maladies are classified as "Acceptible for Breeding" and awarded the Breed Survey Class 2, (KKL2). The dogs found to have significant structural defects and/or not meeting the Breed Standard are classified as Not Acceptible for Breeding. The KKL1 & KKL2 dogs are not positioned as the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place KKL1 and or KKL2 dogs. The Breed Survey Master may make breeding recommendations as to suitable bloodlines to breed into or what to look for in the structure of an ideal breeding partner.

By contrast: the Breed Shows, like the Working Trials compare dogs in the event that day to each other and ranks them in the order the judge(s) think(s) appropriate. Admittedly, the trial is a bit more objective than the show since the judge(s) are somewhat restrained by very specific point awards. Consider if you will, however, the very concept of "The Universal Sieger Show and Trial", as I see it and, as I understand your negative contributions, does more to accomplish the goals you seem to want than anything else going on in the Dog Sport today.

The system we have is certainly and admittedly not perfect. It has been evolving for years and will continue to do so due to inpart to the public's perception of the Working Dog Sport. Although, not perfect, it is the best we have now.

by Ibrahim on 11 January 2015 - 16:01

If I am not mistaken, recently, in Germany, in a breed survey, dog gets either kkl or nothing, means no kkl1 and kkl2 anumore


by susie on 11 January 2015 - 16:01

Ibrahim, you are right, and there is no comparison between the dogs.
On a show the dogs are ranked, but a V is a V, a SG is a SG, a G is a G, no matter which place. It´s not even written down officially on the show card.

by joanro on 11 January 2015 - 16:01

True, Ibrahim. It's just more of the sv not differentiating between a dog that is correct and one that can have missing premolar and deemed equal to the dog with full dentition, for example.


by susie on 11 January 2015 - 16:01

No, Joanro, this was made to end the difference between the ratings of working- and showlines.
Now it simply says "breedable" or "not breedable", for anything else you need to take a look into the breed report ( and this should do everybody, who is interested in any special dog, not only now, but before the change, too ).

by Ibrahim on 11 January 2015 - 16:01

Sorry Joanro, can you explain a little more please. If they do not differenciate between correct and faulty dog, then that is wrong and against their declared intention,


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