Universal Sieger - Page 2

Wow, Susie;

If you are right, I think this action is most certainly a step in the wrong direction.  You are saying that effectively there is no show rating other than general categories as in: VA-V-SG and G. Is that same thing applcable to the working events like no first place, second place and so on. Will there be no point awards so that dogs either finish; V-SG-G-M etc. A dog with a score of 300 will finish no higher the dogs with 296 or 295, neither will be considered above the other.  Effectively, from what I understand, you are saying we will never have Working or Show Champions anymore, dogs with structural faults will be considered just a favorably for breeding as dogs with perfect structure and dentition. Bitework will be just pass or fail (no more pronounce or acceptible).  

Please, someone tell me that this is not happening.

 

 

No, Richard, you need to distinguish between a "normal" show and the BSHZ,
you need to distinguish between a IPO rating and the BSP.

For BREEDING you need a show result ( either V, SG, or G ), but no PLACEMENT.
For breeding you need a title ( either IPO 1-3, HD, RH2 ), but again, no PLACEMENT:

This has been the same all the years, no difference.

In breed survey SV distinguished KKL1/KKL2, now it´s yes/no ( KKL ).
You simply need to read the breed report, but you had to read it in former times, too.

A KKL2 didn´t automatically say "missing teeth" - might have been because of "sufficient fightingdrive" or anything else, too

No Richard, she is only talking about the breed survey.

Susie, I used missing teeth only as an example. Did not imply that its automatic missing teeth. For kkl2 I would expect one to inquire why not a one. But now, ALL kkl dogs must be reviewed...seems wrong for a dog with missing teeth to equal one with full dentition. Personnally , I don't make exceptions for breeding animals, they must all have full dentition for me, and produce the same.

Ibrahim, you are correct, it is against their declared intention. That is why I don't rely on sv for breed worthiness. I am more honest and have honest opinion of others to either confirm what I see or tell me different.

CONFLICT BETWEEN SHOW DOG BREEDERS AND WORKING DOG BREEDERS.... CAN IT BE RESOLVED?

Why should there be so much conflict today  between breeders who concentrate on breeding working dogs and breeders whose main aim is to breed top quality show specimens?

 Isn't it  possible to have a German Shepherd dog that is a top show winner and also an animal that can also compete successfully in working trials?

It has happened in the past, why not today?

Blitzen, talking about Germany, there are 14000 puppies registered/year - and

1. there are approximately 10 VA dogs and 40 top v dogs within the ring. These dogs are between 2 and 5 years old ( 4 X 14.000 = 36.000 ).
These 50 dogs are 0,139 % out of the puppies born during this time.

2. there are approximately 60 dogs competing on a high level on the BSP - they mostly are between 3 and 6 years old. Same calculation:
These 60 dogs are 0,167 % out of the puppies born during this time.

It´s not about TOP dogs, it´s about dogs fitting into the standard and willing to work, and than you are able to find enough.

It has happened in the past, why not today?

it really happened only once, 1967, with bodo and betty, and was pretty much the 'fluke' result of the introduction of the TSB test. 1968 already saw a watered-down TSB test to accommodate the incumbents -- a recurring theme since.

I try to show you the current breed list - everything written into this sheet of paper is published in the yearly "Körbuch" ( Breed survey book ). Every German club has to buy these books, and everybody is free to read them, or buy them on his own.
A new service is the publication of the breed surveys for 4 weeks on the SV website.
Personally I think, the KKL1/KKL2 was easier for newcomers, but the procedure in itself didn´t wash out, but became more accurate during the last years.

 

 

          

              

what's a universal seiger, is it like a really super awesome dog or something?