What up and coming dogs are you watching and why? - Page 2

Who owns Dinoso?

Blitzen - When people from abroad (outside of Germany) buy a dog they usually are an enthusiast of the breed. For those people who are wealthy enough to buy an upcoming young male who is full of quality and promise they would have seen the dog before buying. Having agreed to buy there will be conditions to be met before taking possession of the dog. After spending a lot of money the new owner will have paid for the dog to be fully trained to IPO 3 and achieved some good places at shows and the Sieger show in particular. It is also better to keep the dog in training in Germany as the qualification is more valuable having complied with SV rules. One thing that must be remembered is that the qualification does mean that the dogs have to demonstrate that they have the ability to work and will protect when called upon in the bite work. Also and, this is important, the dogs are not required to reach the the levels of aggression that the working sport dogs demonstrate as a necessity for competition work. This does not mean that they cannot achieve the same levels.

From the German point of view they like to keep these dogs in Germany for a period of time so that they can get enough of the male's blood back into their own bloodlines before being lost abroad. This means that they have to keep the dog up to probably three years of age as they cannot be used before the age of two years.

Personally, I would not buy a dog unseen and being so close to Germany it has not been a major problem for me. Also, to buy an adult dog I always like to see a dog work a little if possible other than the bite work.   I hope that this gives you a little more insight to your questions.

Mackenzie

Mac, I honestly do understand all of that. I've been in this since 1969. What I don't get is how posters can come to an internet forum and promote dogs they themselves have never seen. Do they look at the progeny, photos, videos, show placements, IPO scores, what others have to say? How is it possible to pick an "up and coming dog to watch" unless one has at least seen the dog or multiple progeny? What is the criteria for selecting a dog to watch? 

Blitzen - I can only tell you what I used to do when searching for a male. First I was going to Germany almost every weekend to see a Landesgruppen show. These shows are where the top dogs go including the VA dogs and where the gossip about the dogs could be obtained by talking to people. Sometimes I would see an animal there that would be interesting to me. I also read the Nachrichten reports every month which shows the number of studs each male has had in the previous month. The report also shows the name of every female taken to the male together with the name and address of the female's owner and whether she was rented just for the mating. The date of the mating is shown and, the hip ratings are also shown here. I would then look at the female's pedigree to see if there were any dogs that would be useful to my female. With this information I would cross reference the male and females with the Koerbuch (breed survey and updated every year). All of this is just the starting point because if a male was interesting then I tried to see the progeny from him to assess what he was passing on or whether the the progeny were getting more from the mother lines. I was never interested in males under the age of four years because I wanted to see how they were when fully developed so that I would have a better idea of how his offspring would develop. The male also had to have SchH 3. This is a long winded process but the answers come quicker the more experienced a person is. All of this information would show the reader what top breeders of the day were doing which is a good indication of where the breed is going,

I was a member of the SV for many years.

Mackenzie

Blitzen, I doubt any of the posters in this thread had the possibility to see these dogs in real ( yet ? ).
These dogs are interesting because of there results ( Arre show / a beautiful dog, but at least I didn´t like his performance, the others IPO ).
Their results make you look twice, they are "interesting" at least.
A lot of people already used them as studs - why? There must be a reason...

You are absolutely correct, it´s about results and hearsay "only", not about first hand experience. But it´s a start...
To be really sure about a dog you need to see the dog in question in real life, but a lot of people don´t have the possibility to do so, in this case they need to care about "results". Not always the best way to go, but that´s the way it is.
I`d take a look at the clubs in my surrounding ( I really believe in "Buy local" ), but out of an unknown reason the Americans tend to believe that only the Germans ( maybe Dutch and Czech, too ) are able to breed good German Shepherd dogs.
In case the Americans would start to title their dogs more often, things might change.....but I´m waiting for this change for decades now.

Just watched the video of Arre - Not impressed..

Mackenzie

Imho his bitework was an embarrassment. He looks cow hocked, and his movement was horrendous. He could knit a jumper at the rear . Nice pigment though!

 

Well, so much for keeping it friendly. Same old............

Khasleei23, I like the look of those dogs! :) Growing up my family had a female that had a few of the same dogs in their bloodlines, conformation and movment wise she looked a lot like Extreme Orex Aykmar. She had Yoschy von der Döllenwiese, and Gipsy von der Schafbachmühle. She  also had  Nick vom Heiligenbösch, and Aly vom Vordersteinwald. I absolutely loved her and her drives, would have loved to have done some schutzhund work with her but never was able to. I would absolutely LOVE to have a dog with a bit of the same bloodline.

As for Blitzen, I look at dogs that have some of the same dogs in the ancestory that I have had experience with. Then I watch those dogs to see how their drives/scores/and conformation looks. Watch their progeny to see what they are acomplishing and seeing if they are demonstrating what I would want in a pup. I can't get to see these dogs in person just videos therefor I would talk to others that have and see what their opinions are. The biggest selling point for me though, would be drives and scores with offspring that are doing well.

Blitzen, I assume you are referring to my comment . Well , I wasn't being unfriendly , just giving my humble opinion of what I personally saw in the Arre videos I looked at !