Czech pedigree define??? - Page 17

the simple question was, why did you buy czech papered dogs and not pink papered BSP lines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu1dweQYDlA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
To answer your question, duke;
Not because I saw any ads for 'straight cz', but because they were the type of gsd I was searching for. And BTW, duke, at the time, I didn't have so much as an email address, and I had never even heard of pdb or alpine or even jinopo, in fact I'd never so much as ever touched a computer keyboard or mouse at the time. A friend of mine who had been 'in dogs' for fifty years, and who was a familiar with the workings of the www, was helping me find the border patrol dogs I'd read about years before. They showed this dog's video to me, as well as videos of cordon and Furo. They brought up the jinopo site on their computer for me and that's how I found my original dogs...not because of any ads or sales pitch. I chose my pups from dogs I liked presented in the videos. Which was a totally new experience for me. I'd never seen videos of anything before that on a computer. But to answer you, I 'picked' my dogs the same way I 'picked' my winners at the Meadowlands track in jersey more than forty years ago ( coincidentally, now I live in Rutherford county, nc:-) ...by watching the horses during warm ups and taking note of the race and gate numbers on the harness of the horses that impressed me. Collected at the window every race...sometime win, other times place or show, but I won every race i bet on. Same way I won with the dogs I picked from seeing them on a computer. I never concerned myself at the time with the dogs in the pedigrees that made these dogs.

gotta love the interwebs. where else would an american get the opportunity to tell a czech breeder/broker of LE/Military/working dogs that he doesn't know squat about the dogs in his country.

so a gut feeling and a video of a dog that never walked the border doing an IPO routine convinced you that you needit to have dogs coming from borderpatroldogs you read about years before

if people do the same thing now they are victims of a sales pitch

I happen to train every now and than with both Jiri"s every now and than and they still have good dogs coming from those lines , I have some good dogs from those lines and in ZVV3 and TART competitions I see good dogs from those lines, so what should these and other breeders say when asked about their breedings, Im sorry but there is a west dog in the fifth generation

second and most biggest difference is that oldshowlinedogs are way different than todays showline and old west and DDR dogs were used for other motives than todays breeders running to elute, bomber and javir to name a few, be it to create more sporty type or to sell pups more easy, they are definately other type of dogs than the dogs from old lines, even when the old lines include west somewhere

every body can look at it the way they want, call it what the want, but at the end there still are old type dogs from old lines/breedings that some people (including you once) appreciate over the flavour of the day dogs of today

other side of the coin is that old czech is same as dark sable big head for some peple and the presense of old lines in the pedigree dont guarantee quality, the same as WUSV winners in your pedigree dont guarantee quality, KNPV dogs in your pedigree dont guarantee quality and Ringtitles in your pedigree dont guarantee quality

at the end it is up to the breeders to maintain the quality and type of dog they want to breed, the type we want is mostly bred out of the old lines, same reason why you bought them in th first place

this is my final post on this topic, all is said

  

'so a gut feeling and a video of a dog that never walked the border doing an IPO routine convinced you that you needit to have dogs coming from borderpatroldogs you read about years before'
So, you missed the part about I wanted a dog like the border patrol dogs. There was no border patrol by then, there wasn't even a Czechoslovakia, by then . And you know what, duke, yeah, a gut feeling, just like the gut feeling I got about the paint horse I bought as a two yr old, that he'd be capable of doing what I wanted to train him for. And the same 'gut feeling' if thats what you want to call it, that prompted me to buy the one week old red brahman bull calf that he would turn out to be trainable. You are getting way off topic here, because you are trying to make what point? See, duke, the difference between people being scammed these days by hyp on the internet, is that the hyp draws them in, like you said, 'everybody says something to make their dogs interesting to buyers.' So, you asked me a question, I wasn't obliged to answer you, especially since you have not answered any question I asked you, but now you are not satisfied with my answer. If the four pups I imported had not turned out to be what I was looking for in a dog, they would have been rehomed, the same way I rehomed the three that didn't turn out to be what I was looking for in a dog.

'but at the end there still are old type dogs from old lines/breedings that some people (including you once) appreciate over the flavour of the day dogs of today'
How many of your dogs are line bred on 'flavour of the decade', if you are intent on being insulting?
And that comment by you is ironic, being as you are the one calling you female with GSL very close in her ped 'old lines/all Czech. Not to mention, I still have the same bloodlines/dogs I started with...so who is this 'flavour of the day', that I supposedly now prefer....and on what are you basing 'including you once' remark. If a person is honest, they will see that the GSL has been included/incorporated in the Czech 'old lines' for many generations. Quanto vd Weinerau is behind many of the famous ones.

'other side of the coin is that old czech is same as dark sable big head for some peple and the presense of old lines in the pedigree dont guarantee quality,
This is exactly the reason the czech pups that didn't turn out to be what I wanted were rehomed with people who they suited. And the same reason I only kept the pups I raised that were what I wanted.

'the same as WUSV winners in your pedigree dont guarantee quality,'
What WUSV winners in MY pedigree?


'KNPV dogs in your pedigree dont guarantee quality and Ringtitles in your pedigree dont guarantee quality'
What KNPV dogs in MY pedigree? Last time I looked, there were no knpv dogs in any of my dogs' pedigrees.

'at the end it is up to the breeders to maintain the quality and type of dog they want to breed, the type we want is mostly bred out of the old lines, same reason why you bought them in th first place'
I agree, but that doesn't change the first comment I made on this entire thred. I have not, nor have I read any where in this thred, that people don't want old lines. That's why so many ads proclaim this, even when it does not apply to what they are selling. That is called Hyp or Sale's pitch, which is what I answered to the op's question. 'so a gut feeling and a video of a dog that never walked the border doing an IPO routine convinced you that you needit to have dogs coming from borderpatroldogs you read about years before' Nice try, but that's not what I said. I already decided I wanted dogs descended from border patrol dogs, the video of the dogs doing IPO was a part of what confirmed my decision. Sort of like watching your videos of your dogs doing IPO routine helped me decide you have good dogs. Of course, I could be wrong, but gut feeling tells me I'm not;-) And I already had GSL dog born in 1995, and hoped that the pups from Czech would turn out at least half as good. Also raised trained and schH titled a wgsl from second generation 'pink papered' dogs. So been there done that, thank you.

'Look at xant's mother's pedigree. Three generations from your female is Wildsteigerland, sixth gen is Arminius, seventh gen is Wienerau, etc. Are those kennels Czech? Have a German sound to them when spoken aloud. :-)'

This post by me, answering the op,is what got you saying there must not be any Czech breeders producing good dogs? And gsl three generations back from a young dog today is not Old Timey GSL. Even the guy in Arizona said jiri is using wgwl studs ( that happen to contain flavor of the decade wusv dogs) because the old bloodlines run out..and that the dogs in the pedigree don't matter, its the Type of dog that makes it old timey.
Earlier in this thred, I said you have good dogs, even tho I have never seen any of your dogs in person, only judging from the rhetoric you post and some of the videos you've posted.....does that mean I've misjudged? And no one said the jiris are not still producing good dogs using old lines and wgl, I didn't say it means the dogs can't be good, mixing up the 'lines'. But that is not what this thred is about.:-)

i like how joan says shes done with this thread like 4 times and yet still keeps going and going. just gotta get the last word in. 

you say czech is a sales pitch, others say czech is a word used to describe a certain line of shepherd. i think both can be right. 

also too bad this thread wasn't on another forum. there would've been a record number of red letters. 

'there would've been a record number of red letters.'
Red letters comment qpwas made about fifteen pages ago.

I said I was done how many times? And you said i dont understand english. Duke's the one who said he wasn't posting any more, then did some more, so what's it to you boomer? 'Agreed about 'type' and different 'lines'. But in the context of the original question, more often than not, the description in ads of all Czech or pure Czech is sale's hyp. Jmo.' <<< that's what I said on page 20 . As for last word, boom boom, when some one says something to disparage me or my pup, I'll respond. Someone asks me a question, I answer ( unlike you) then the answer causes the person who asked to going off on another tangent, then that crap needs to be addressed. That's how these 'discussions go'.I'm not like you, go away when the going gets tough. Man up boomer, you never answered any questions directed to you, but you come on here saying lies, 'like how Joan quits like four times' then keeps going. Pffffff. Light weight.