reversed mask - Page 11

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bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 07 May 2015 - 03:05

Hexe .. to have any scientific validity a test such as you describe would require clones or identical twins .. cattle very, very rarely have identical twins.  Human testing using identical twins has shown that identical twins have a high heritability for some traits and not for others but for fraternal or siblings from the same parents the heritability is low based on genetic factors.  Environment is the biggest factor affecting behavior and even for identical twins the heritability is low and not consistent for most traits.  One set of identical twins raised in seperate household with a different environment may be both left handed while another set may be both left and right handed.  Proficiency in mathematics may be shared within identical twins or not.  Human identical twins can look identical but many sets have different personalities and skill sets.  Even idetical twins are not identical as genes can be switched on or off differently in identical twins.  Gene switching is affected by environment from egg to adulthood and beyond.  One identical twin girl with the BRCA mutation may get breast cancer while the other identical twin may not.  Phenotypic markers are notoriously poor indicators of the traits of an individual unless their phenotype limits the function of the organism for that trait or gives the individual an advantage.  All NBA basketball players ( almost all at least ) are tall men but not all tall men can play NBA basketball.   Gymnist tend to be short around 5' 8" or less .. there are almost no 7 foot gymnists.  Plenty of short people who do not have the skills to be a gymnist.


by duke1965 on 07 May 2015 - 18:05

Ibahim, no problem, you may call it what you want Wink Smile


by hexe on 07 May 2015 - 22:05

vk, I don't know what it says about reverse masks in GSDs--no one has commissioned any research on that, as I imagine it would be of little benefit to most of the world's population to learn that answer.  I was merely providing proof that links between certain physical traits and specific behavioral characteristics has been proven in several other species--whether bubba considers it to be an acceptable level of proof or not, people who are better qualified to judge that than him consider it to be acceptable and accurate as of right now, though like all good research it will be repeatedly challenged scientifically, as is all good science.

bubba, while I dispute your contention that the research regarding whorl placement in cattle cannot be considered valid unless it used identical twins or clones, I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that the latter circumstance is being investigated even as we speak, now that cloning of both beef and dairy breeding stock is quite common.

 


by vk4gsd on 07 May 2015 - 23:05

" I imagine it would be of little benefit to most of the world's population to learn that answer."

 

but if the claims being made re balance drives yadyada  are true then it would be of utmost importance to the GSD world, which actually does spill over to large sections of most of the worlds population when you consider narc, MWD, LEO etc albeit indirectly.


bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 08 May 2015 - 01:05

Never say never to anything .. science is never 100% on anything .. it's just a matter of probabilities and numbers combined with good trial design.  Money, space and time limit all experiments at some point.  In my old work the Latin Square was considered the gold standard ( plant research ) but the Latin Square has one rep for each treatment so the number of treatments is limited .. an 8 treatment Latin Square design needs 64 individual plots with multiple evaluations and variables sampled per plot .. 8 variables measured x 64 plots x 4 evaluations.  A RCB which is considered just fine by most would take half or less money, work, space, time, etc. so most use the RCB because more trials looks better than a few excellent trials and if you lose or damage the Latin Square you have lost a lot more work and money.  A lot of science is about number of studies and money for funding so a lot of studies using data from existing data sets are cheap to run and look good but the results can be iffy when examined by someone who knows what to look for.  A lot of trials are run with flawed designs from the get go and the results are therefore of little use other than to plan the next trial with a better design.  Science is often two steps forward and one step back or even worse you find yourself on a dead end road.  The human data on whorls in the hair has been inconsistent even with identical twins but cows have few real identical twins and cows have a very complicated genome similar in size to humans with only 80% shared with humans .. mice and dogs have much more shared genes with humans than cows.  Cows have 1000 genes shared with dogs and rodents not found in humans.  Wolves and dogs have 39 chromosomes, cows have 30 chromosomes, and humans have 23 chromosomes.  Humans have approximately 20,000 genes ( 20,500 is the current estimate but it has declined as the genome was studies ) while cows have 22,000 genes by current count.  Thus even when cows, dogs and humans have shared genes the location and layout of these genes can be different which greatly influences how the genes interact and are inherited. 






 


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